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 Post subject: Re: Defending Catholism when talking to Orthodox Christians
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 12:47 am 
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Jakub wrote:
beng wrote:
Jakub wrote:
The forum at Byzcath is Eastern, both Orthodox & Catholic, however, they do expect a certain courtesy from guests and visitors, just like here.

Beng your type of labelings and misconceptions are a prime example that there is a long way to go for many...


Does it mean that for "some" eastern Catholic, they're a long way to go before they become truly Catholic like their saintly forefathers? If it is, then I agree.

Look, some eastern Catholics are not Catholic. Just like how some western Catholic are not Catholic (e.g. Pelosi). Not all of them are saints. Many have defy Catholic teaching. Just like how many western Catholics have defy catholic teaching.


I seriously doubt that you have the knowledge or ability to decide or pass judgement on who is Catholic or not, East or West...


Thankfully your doubts is not fact.


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 Post subject: Re: Defending Catholism when talking to Orthodox Christians
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 12:49 am 
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And what's with the eastern defensiveness?

You don't see westerner being defensive when eastern Catholic say that Hans Kung is a heretic.



Just like how it's "somewhat" OK for a black to be racist but not for a white to be racist (the only people who could be racist is white).


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 Post subject: Re: Defending Catholism when talking to Orthodox Christians
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 12:59 am 
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beng wrote:
Jakub wrote:
beng wrote:
Jakub wrote:
The forum at Byzcath is Eastern, both Orthodox & Catholic, however, they do expect a certain courtesy from guests and visitors, just like here.

Beng your type of labelings and misconceptions are a prime example that there is a long way to go for many...


Does it mean that for "some" eastern Catholic, they're a long way to go before they become truly Catholic like their saintly forefathers? If it is, then I agree.

Look, some eastern Catholics are not Catholic. Just like how some western Catholic are not Catholic (e.g. Pelosi). Not all of them are saints. Many have defy Catholic teaching. Just like how many western Catholics have defy catholic teaching.


I seriously doubt that you have the knowledge or ability to decide or pass judgement on who is Catholic or not, East or West...


Thankfully your doubts is not fact.


your doubts are not fact, I so dislike improper grammar...or behavior


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 Post subject: Re: Defending Catholism when talking to Orthodox Christians
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:02 am 
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4vf8N6GpdM

Grammar is for weaklings. So is holier than thou attitude.


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 Post subject: Re: Defending Catholism when talking to Orthodox Christians
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:03 am 
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beng wrote:
And what's with the eastern defensiveness?

You don't see westerner being defensive when eastern Catholic say that Hans Kung is a heretic.



Just like how it's "somewhat" OK for a black to be racist but not for a white to be racist (the only people who could be racist is white).



only people who could be racist are white...

Knowledge and wisdom...


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 Post subject: Re: Defending Catholism when talking to Orthodox Christians
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:13 am 
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Jakub wrote:
beng wrote:
And what's with the eastern defensiveness?

You don't see westerner being defensive when eastern Catholic say that Hans Kung is a heretic.



Just like how it's "somewhat" OK for a black to be racist but not for a white to be racist (the only people who could be racist is white).



only people who could be racist are white...

Knowledge and wisdom...


Image


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 Post subject: Re: Defending Catholism when talking to Orthodox Christians
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:14 am 
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Cute one!

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 Post subject: Re: Defending Catholism when talking to Orthodox Christians
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:20 am 
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Is these you're pictured?

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Defending Catholism when talking to Orthodox Christians
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:29 am 
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How nice, too bad I'm bound by a Lenten promise to respond..presently


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 Post subject: Re: Defending Catholism when talking to Orthodox Christians
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:39 am 
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Jakub wrote:
How nice, too bad I'm bound by a Lenten promise to respond..presently



Incorrect.


Ellipsis is "..." not ".." like the above. Also, there's no space.

Attachment:
grammar_nazi2.jpg


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


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 Post subject: Re: Defending Catholism when talking to Orthodox Christians
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:12 am 
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Cajun_Catholic_Guy wrote:
I read and hear arguments about defending The Catholic Faith against Protestants and sometimes Jews but I've never heard a discussion between a Catholic and an Orthodox Christian about which church is the church founded by Jesus Christ.

If to summarize all that I have read and video lectures that I've watched, there are two different groups of arguments: spiritual and dogmatic. First kind of arguments is much easier to understand.

For example, here is an interview with Jesuit Fr. Robert Taft. In which he says:

    To attempt to apply rational analysis to this is to fail to understand what the East is. Once you get over on this side of the Atlantic Ocean, the further you go South or East from anywhere, the worse everything gets, except the food. Logic gets worse, rationality gets worse, and everything ultimately winds up in hysteria and emotionalism. It’s futile to try and reason about this.

    ...

    To hell with Moscow.

    ...

    That’s what we had before the East/West schism. Does anybody think that Rome had anything to say about who became patriarch of Constantinople? Or who became the metropolitan of Nicomedia? Of course not. These guys were bishops there just like we had bishops here, and when they met they’d say, “You’re a bishop? Hey, I’m a bishop too. How’s it going?” They were all in communion. It’s not like Rome was telling them what to do.

    ...

    Do you agree that the central problem is the papacy?
    Of course. What we’ve made out of the papacy is simply ridiculous. There’s no possible justification in the New Testament or anyplace else for what we’ve made out of the papacy. That doesn’t mean that I don’t believe in a Petrine ministry. I believe that Rome has inherited that Petrine ministry. But there’s no reason on God’s earth why the pope should be appointing the bishop of Peoria.

To summarize this, when people contradict to what was established by God, - they inevitably begin to contradict themselves, become evil and pride, and this ruins their souls. But the Church was established to save our souls. Another examples you can find in this article: Why Orthodoxy is the true faith by Alexey Osipov, professor and lecturer from Moscow Orthodox Theological Seminary. On in his video lecture: "Ortodoxy and non". (Each video there has two links below, left link - to watch online, right - to download.) This spiritual argument he applies to both Roman Catholicism and Protestantism.


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 Post subject: Re: Defending Catholism when talking to Orthodox Christians
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:16 am 
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Fr. Taft's words are an embarrassment to the Jesuit order.


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 Post subject: Re: Defending Catholism when talking to Orthodox Christians
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:50 am 
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Vadim wrote:
If to summarize...

Vadim,

Glad to see you are back. Please give me your thoughts on my Hefele observation here: Re: Vadim - Orthodox Papal Issues.

Thanks.

Greg


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 Post subject: Re: Defending Catholism when talking to Orthodox Christians
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:59 am 
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CCG,

Did you get an answer to your questions?


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 Post subject: Re: Defending Catholism when talking to Orthodox Christians
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 11:43 am 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Fr. Taft's words are an embarrassment to the Jesuit order.


I am puzzled by your response Padre, Fr. Taft is well spoke of and respected in many circles in the U.S. and abroad...

I wonder...


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 Post subject: Re: Defending Catholism when talking to Orthodox Christians
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 11:46 am 
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I can't help that. He speaks contemptuously and irreverently of the papacy.


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 Post subject: Re: Defending Catholism when talking to Orthodox Christians
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:50 pm 
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Greg wrote:
Cajun_Catholic_Guy wrote:
... I'm very surprised at some of the things I've found, like they do not believe in Purgatory...


Well, they may not call it "purgatory," but it sounds very similar:

At the instant when a man dies, the body goes to the earth and is dissolved into the elements of which it is composed, and the soul undergoes a preliminary divine judgment... But if he was a believer, and did not corrupt the faith, and having sinned, did indeed repent, but did not reach the performance of good deeds to prove his repentance by actions, then he is led where God assigns him, that he may be punished temporarily, as long as Divine Righteousness considers proper.

CATECHISM OF THE EASTERN ORTHODOX CHURCH WRITTEN BY Rev. Constas H. Demetry, D. D.

Well that interesting. The more I research this stuff the more confused I become but that's okay I find it very interesting.


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 Post subject: Re: Defending Catholism when talking to Orthodox Christians
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:54 pm 
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Greg wrote:
CCG,

Did you get an answer to your questions?

Yes you guys have been very helpful and I'm still reading a lot of links you guys gave but the more questions I get cleared up the more questions keep coming. My head is spinning but that's okay I love learning.


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 Post subject: Re: Defending Catholism when talking to Orthodox Christians
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:56 pm 
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The Ukrainian Catholics have a newly published Catechism though I don't know if it's been translated to English yet...

Found one though it's a older version...




http://www.archive.org/stream/Ukrainian ... 3/mode/2up


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 Post subject: Re: Defending Catholism when talking to Orthodox Christians
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:46 pm 
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Cajun_Catholic_Guy wrote:
Greg wrote:
CCG,

Did you get an answer to your questions?

Yes you guys have been very helpful and I'm still reading a lot of links you guys gave but the more questions I get cleared up the more questions keep coming. My head is spinning but that's okay I love learning.


In my inquiries into Eastern Orthodoxy I have realized that it IS a different mindset.


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