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 Post subject: Calvinist-the Early Church on Baptism
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:41 pm 
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Sons of Thunder
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"Wherefore also the Lord promised to send the Comforter, John 16:7 who should join us to God. For as a compacted lump of dough cannot be formed of dry wheat without fluid matter, nor can a loaf possess unity, so, in like manner, neither could we, being many, be made one in Christ Jesus without the water from heaven. And as dry earth does not bring forth unless it receive moisture, in like manner we also, being originally a dry tree, could never have brought forth fruit unto life without the voluntary rain from above. For our bodies have received unity among themselves by means of that laver which leads to incorruption; but our souls, by means of the Spirit. Wherefore both are necessary, since both contribute towards the life of God..." Ireneaus of Lyon "Against Heresies", bk 3, chpt 17

"This means, that we indeed descend into the water full of sins and defilement, but come up, bearing fruit in our heart, having the fear [of God] and trust in Jesus in our spirit. " Epistle of Barnabas, chpt 11

"As many as are persuaded and believe that what we teach and say is true, and undertake to be able to live accordingly, are instructed to pray and to entreat God with fasting, for the remission of their sins that are past, we praying and fasting with them. Then they are brought by us where there is water, and are regenerated in the same manner in which we were ourselves regenerated. For, in the name of God, the Father and Lord of the universe, and of our Saviour Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit, they then receive the washing with water. For Christ also said, “Unless you be born again, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven."...And for this [rite] we have learned from the apostles this reason. Since at our birth we were born without our own knowledge or choice, by our parents coming together, and were brought up in bad habits and wicked training; in order that we may not remain the children of necessity and of ignorance, but may become the children of choice and knowledge, and may obtain in the water the remission of sins formerly committed, there is pronounced over him who chooses to be born again, and has repented of his sins, the name of God the Father and Lord of the universe; he who leads to the laver the person that is to be washed calling him by this name alone. And this washing is called illumination, because they who learn these things are illuminated in their understandings."
Justin Martyr, "First Apology" chpt 61

"If any man receive not Baptism, he has not salvation; except only Martyrs, who even without the water receive the kingdom." Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechesis, 3:10

"Therefore read that the three witnesses in baptism, the water, the blood, and the Spirit, 1 John 5:7 are one, for if you take away one of these, the Sacrament of Baptism does not exist. For what is water without the cross of Christ? A common element, without any sacramental effect. Nor, again, is there the Sacrament of Regeneration without water: “For except a man be born again of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.” John 3:5 Now, even the catechumen believes in the cross of the Lord Jesus, wherewith he too is signed; but unless he be baptized in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, he cannot receive remission of sins nor gain the gift of spiritual grace." St Ambrose, "On the Mysteries", 4:20

"The Christians of Carthage have an excellent name for the sacraments, when they say that baptism is nothing else than “salvation,” and the sacrament of the body of Christ nothing else than “life.” Whence, however, was this derived, but from that primitive, as I suppose, and apostolic tradition, by which the Churches of Christ maintain it to be an inherent principle, that without baptism and partaking of the supper of the Lord it is impossible for any man to attain either to the kingdom of God or to salvation and everlasting life? So much also does Scripture testify..." St. Augustine, "On the Merits and Remission of Sins", bk 1, chpt 24

"Happy is our sacrament of water, in that, by washing away the sins of our early blindness, we are set free and admitted into eternal life! A treatise on this matter will not be superfluous; instructing not only such as are just becoming formed (in the faith), but them who, content with having simply believed, without full examination of the grounds of the traditions, carry (in mind), through ignorance, an untried though probable faith. The consequence is, that a viper of the Cainite heresy, lately conversant in this quarter, has carried away a great number with her most venomous doctrine, making it her first aim to destroy baptism. Which is quite in accordance with nature; for vipers and asps and basilisks themselves generally do affect arid and waterless places. But we, little fishes, after the example of our ΙΧΘΥΣ Jesus Christ, are born in water, nor have we safety in any other way than by permanently abiding in water; so that most monstrous creature, who had no right to teach even sound doctrine, knew full well how to kill the little fishes, by taking them away from the water!" Tertullian, "On Baptism", chpt 1

"The things proceeding from the waters were blessed by God, that this also might be a sign of men's being destined to receive repentance and remission of sins, through the water and laver of regeneration(Titus 3:5),-as many as come to the truth, and are born again, and receive blessing from God." Theophilus of Antioch, "To Auotlycus", chpt 2:16

"All waters, therefore, in virtue of the pristine privilege of their origin, do, after invocation of God, attain the sacramental power of sanctification; for the Spirit immediately supervenes from the heavens, and rests over the waters, sanctifying them from Himself; and being thus sanctified, they imbibe at the same time the power of sanctifying. Albeit the similitude may be admitted to be suitable to the simple act; that, since we are defiled by sins, as it were by dirt, we should be washed from those stains in waters. But as sins do not show themselves in our flesh (inasmuch as no one carries on his skin the spot of idolatry, or fornication, or fraud), so persons of that kind are foul in the spirit, which is the author of the sin; for the spirit is lord, the flesh servant. Yet they each mutually share the guilt: the spirit, on the ground of command; the flesh, of subservience. Therefore, after the waters have been in a manner endued with medicinal virtue through the intervention of the angel, the spirit is corporeally washed in the waters, and the flesh is in the same spiritually cleansed." Tertullian, "On Baptism", chpt 4

"Let us then in everything believe God, and gainsay Him in nothing, though what is said seem to be contrary to our thoughts and senses, but let His word be of higher authority than both reasonings and sight. Thus let us do in the mysteries also, not looking at the things set before us, but keeping in mind His sayings.
For His word cannot deceive, but our senses are easily beguiled. That has never failed, but this in most things goes wrong. Since then the word says, “This is my body,” let us both be persuaded and believe, and look at it with the eyes of the mind. For Christ has given nothing sensible, but though in things sensible yet all to be perceived by the mind. So also in baptism, the gift is bestowed by a sensible thing, that is, by water; but that which is done is perceived by the mind, the birth, I mean, and the renewal. For if you had been incorporeal, He would have delivered you the incorporeal gifts bare; but because the soul has been locked up in a body, He delivers you the things that the mind perceives, in things sensible. How many now say, I would wish to see His form, the mark, His clothes, His shoes. Lo! You see Him, Thou touchest Him, you eat Him. And thou indeed desirest to see His clothes, but He gives Himself to you not to see only, but also to touch and eat and receive within you." St. John Chrysostom, "On the Gospel of Matthew", homily 82

"And if He was perfect, why was He, the perfect one, baptized? It was necessary, they say, to fulfil the profession that pertained to humanity. Most excellent. Well, I assert, simultaneously with His baptism by John, He becomes perfect? Manifestly. He did not then learn anything more from him? Certainly not. But He is perfected by the washing— of baptism— alone, and is sanctified by the descent of the Spirit? Such is the case. The same also takes place in our case, whose exemplar Christ became. Being baptized, we are illuminated; illuminated, we become sons; being made sons, we are made perfect; being made perfect, we are made immortal. “I,” says He, “have said that you are gods, and all sons of the Highest.” This work is variously called grace, and illumination, and perfection, and washing: washing, by which we cleanse away our sins; grace, by which the penalties accruing to transgressions are remitted; and illumination, by which that holy light of salvation is beheld, that is, by which we see God clearly. Now we call that perfect which wants nothing. For what is yet wanting to him who knows God? For it were truly monstrous that that which is not complete should be called a gift (or act) of God's grace." St. Clement of Alexandria, "(Christ) the Instructor", bk 1, chpt 6

"He it is who effects with water the second birth as a certain seed of divine generation, and a consecration of a heavenly nativity, the pledge of a promised inheritance, and as it were a kind of handwriting of eternal salvation; who can make us God's temple, and fit us for His house; who solicits the divine hearing for us with groanings that cannot be uttered; filling the offices of advocacy, and manifesting the duties of our defence—an inhabitant given for our bodies and an effector of their holiness." Novatian, "On the Trinity", chpt 29

Here are twelve citations from the early Church, Calvinist. If you can present ANY evidence from 100 a.d. to 600 a.d. that the Church-the Body of Christ- believed anything OTHER than this I would love to see it.


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 Post subject: Re: Calvinist-the Early Church on Baptism
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:49 pm 
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Sons of Thunder
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BTW, I did this to fulfill a request by Calvinist, and I have done so. I must now, in accordance with Lent, leave it hopefully to Pax and others to continue on because I am spending this Lent in "fasting" from the computer.

To all my brothers and sisters in Christ: all my love and respect to you and I will be back after Easter!

God Bless!

Rich


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 Post subject: Re: Calvinist-the Early Church on Baptism
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:45 pm 
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I'm really not surprised at the absence of a response to my OP. Just as Cardinal Newman once said, "To be steeped in history is to cease to be protestant..."


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 Post subject: Re: Calvinist-the Early Church on Baptism
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:59 pm 
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Our Lady's Gladiator
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and apparently to be overwhelmed by the truth has sent calvinist from us...for a while now :wave


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 Post subject: Re: Calvinist-the Early Church on Baptism
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:17 pm 
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Mithrandir wrote:
I'm really not surprised at the absence of a response to my OP. Just as Cardinal Newman once said, "To be steeped in history is to cease to be protestant..."


To be deep in history is to cease to be a Protestant.

GKC


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 Post subject: Re: Calvinist-the Early Church on Baptism
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:26 pm 
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GKC wrote:
Mithrandir wrote:
I'm really not surprised at the absence of a response to my OP. Just as Cardinal Newman once said, "To be steeped in history is to cease to be protestant..."


To be deep in history is to cease to be a Protestant.

GKC


All of Cardinal Newman's works are now available in e-book format from Google Books....okay, now I'm just trolling.... ::):


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 Post subject: Re: Calvinist-the Early Church on Baptism
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:39 pm 
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Doom wrote:
GKC wrote:
Mithrandir wrote:
I'm really not surprised at the absence of a response to my OP. Just as Cardinal Newman once said, "To be steeped in history is to cease to be protestant..."


To be deep in history is to cease to be a Protestant.

GKC


All of Cardinal Newman's works are now available in e-book format from Google Books....okay, now I'm just trolling.... ::):


Perfectly permissible.

But I have my own copy of AN ESSAY ON THE DEVELOPMENT OF CHRISTIAN DOCTRINE.

I think.

GKC


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 Post subject: Re: Calvinist-the Early Church on Baptism
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:20 am 
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Thank you for posting this list. I find myself needing some of these quotes from time to time and I'm stuck trying to remember where to get more than a couple at a time. This posting might help. :D


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 Post subject: Re: Calvinist-the Early Church on Baptism
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:41 pm 
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Our Lady's Gladiator
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pheardom, if you haven't got a copy of our host's conversion story called "crossing the tiber", get it... it has the largest section of what the Church believed on baptism and the Eucharist of any book i have ever seen :fyi: :cloud9:


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 Post subject: Re: Calvinist-the Early Church on Baptism
PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 4:00 pm 
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Sons of Thunder
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Pheardom wrote:
Thank you for posting this list. I find myself needing some of these quotes from time to time and I'm stuck trying to remember where to get more than a couple at a time. This posting might help. :D


Many of them are in a book I have from Fr. John Willis:
http://www.ignatius.com/Products/TCF-P/the-teachings-of-the-church-fathers.aspx

I got my copy from Barnes & Noble.


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