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 Post subject: Re: How would you respond -If you died 2nite where would you go?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:12 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: How would you respond -If you died 2nite where would you go?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:43 pm 
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Chris G wrote:
And before one can submit to the proper authority, one must let go of pride.

I like this question better: If you were to get to heaven and see two doors, one "Those who know they are saved" and another "Those in need of God's mercy" which one would you chose?

I'm not qualified to judge myself, I leave that to God.


Love it!


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 Post subject: Re: How would you respond -If you died 2nite where would you go?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:47 am 
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pax wrote:
Calvinist wrote:
Who here doesn't believe the catholic church isn't God's church? I realize there are a few non-catholics on this board, but of the others...who doesn't believe it is?


I believe the holy Roman Catholic Church and the Mystical Body of Christ are one and the same thing because a Pope infallibly told me so, not because I infallibly told me so.


Why do you trust the Pope to infallibly tell you want it is?


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 Post subject: Re: How would you respond -If you died 2nite where would you go?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:52 am 
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Calvinist wrote:
pax wrote:
Calvinist wrote:
Who here doesn't believe the catholic church isn't God's church? I realize there are a few non-catholics on this board, but of the others...who doesn't believe it is?


I believe the holy Roman Catholic Church and the Mystical Body of Christ are one and the same thing because a Pope infallibly told me so, not because I infallibly told me so.


Why do you trust the Pope to infallibly tell you want it is?


The gift of faith. I can reason it out historically, but I need the gift of faith to actually believe it.


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 Post subject: Re: How would you respond -If you died 2nite where would you go?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:01 am 
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pax wrote:
Calvinist wrote:
pax wrote:
Calvinist wrote:
Who here doesn't believe the catholic church isn't God's church? I realize there are a few non-catholics on this board, but of the others...who doesn't believe it is?


I believe the holy Roman Catholic Church and the Mystical Body of Christ are one and the same thing because a Pope infallibly told me so, not because I infallibly told me so.


Why do you trust the Pope to infallibly tell you want it is?


The gift of faith. I can reason it out historically, but I need the gift of faith to actually believe it.



So you trust that the catholic church is God's church and the Pope is his voice on earth out of faith?

I'm flabbergasted by that. I'm sorry...but nowhere in scripture are we told to have faith in a man, or the church. To me, that is simply idolatry. I don't mean to poke you in the eye there...but that's just not good.


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 Post subject: Re: How would you respond -If you died 2nite where would you go?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:10 am 
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he who hears you, hears Me... who said that..and to whom?


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 Post subject: Re: How would you respond -If you died 2nite where would you go?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:19 am 
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Calvinist wrote:
pax wrote:
Calvinist wrote:
pax wrote:
Calvinist wrote:
Who here doesn't believe the catholic church isn't God's church? I realize there are a few non-catholics on this board, but of the others...who doesn't believe it is?


I believe the holy Roman Catholic Church and the Mystical Body of Christ are one and the same thing because a Pope infallibly told me so, not because I infallibly told me so.


Why do you trust the Pope to infallibly tell you want it is?


The gift of faith. I can reason it out historically, but I need the gift of faith to actually believe it.



So you trust that the catholic church is God's church and the Pope is his voice on earth out of faith?

I'm flabbergasted by that. I'm sorry...but nowhere in scripture are we told to have faith in a man, or the church. To me, that is simply idolatry. I don't mean to poke you in the eye there...but that's just not good.


He gave the keys to Peter alone. Those early Councils that you accept, what do they say about the decisions of the Bishops of Rome to ratify their teachings? "Peter has spoken through Pope ____!"

Like I said, I can easily reason it out historically.


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 Post subject: Re: How would you respond -If you died 2nite where would you go?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:55 am 
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pax wrote:

He gave the keys to Peter alone. Those early Councils that you accept, what do they say about the decisions of the Bishops of Rome to ratify their teachings? "Peter has spoken through Pope ____!"

Like I said, I can easily reason it out historically.



Why do you believe that Peter had the keys and that he was the first pope? What do you think the "keys" were, and why do you believe Peter alone had them?


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 Post subject: Re: How would you respond -If you died 2nite where would you go?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:04 pm 
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Calvinist wrote:
pax wrote:

He gave the keys to Peter alone. Those early Councils that you accept, what do they say about the decisions of the Bishops of Rome to ratify their teachings? "Peter has spoken through Pope ____!"

Like I said, I can easily reason it out historically.



Why do you believe that Peter had the keys and that he was the first pope? What do you think the "keys" were, and why do you believe Peter alone had them?


Because Christ gave Peter the keys and did not give the keys to anyone else.

The keys were "the keys to the kingdom of heaven". Mighty important and powerful keys!


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 Post subject: Re: How would you respond -If you died 2nite where would you go?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:06 pm 
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what..no OT reference to what the keys were about? :nono:


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 Post subject: Re: How would you respond -If you died 2nite where would you go?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:15 pm 
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faithfulservant wrote:
what..no OT reference to what the keys were about? :nono:


To what point? He sees no connection between the two.


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 Post subject: Re: How would you respond -If you died 2nite where would you go?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:49 pm 
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perhaps it would be easier for him to understand the importance of Peter's receiving them if he had the OT connection to go with it.... and it didn't even have to come from a deuterocanonical book to get it :D 8-)


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 Post subject: Re: How would you respond -If you died 2nite where would you go?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:53 pm 
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pax wrote:
Calvinist wrote:
pax wrote:

He gave the keys to Peter alone. Those early Councils that you accept, what do they say about the decisions of the Bishops of Rome to ratify their teachings? "Peter has spoken through Pope ____!"

Like I said, I can easily reason it out historically.



Why do you believe that Peter had the keys and that he was the first pope? What do you think the "keys" were, and why do you believe Peter alone had them?


Because Christ gave Peter the keys and did not give the keys to anyone else.

The keys were "the keys to the kingdom of heaven". Mighty important and powerful keys!


Why do you believe that? Why do you believe we should read it that way?


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 Post subject: Re: How would you respond -If you died 2nite where would you go?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:28 pm 
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Calvinist wrote:
pax wrote:
Calvinist wrote:
pax wrote:

He gave the keys to Peter alone. Those early Councils that you accept, what do they say about the decisions of the Bishops of Rome to ratify their teachings? "Peter has spoken through Pope ____!"

Like I said, I can easily reason it out historically.



Why do you believe that Peter had the keys and that he was the first pope? What do you think the "keys" were, and why do you believe Peter alone had them?


Because Christ gave Peter the keys and did not give the keys to anyone else.

The keys were "the keys to the kingdom of heaven". Mighty important and powerful keys!


Why do you believe that? Why do you believe we should read it that way?


Because God said it, and I don't believe God plays little word games with us.

[16] Simon Peter answered and said: Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God. [17] And Jesus answering, said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven. [18] And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. [19] And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.


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 Post subject: Re: How would you respond -If you died 2nite where would you go?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:24 pm 
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pax wrote:
Calvinist wrote:
pax wrote:
Calvinist wrote:
pax wrote:

He gave the keys to Peter alone. Those early Councils that you accept, what do they say about the decisions of the Bishops of Rome to ratify their teachings? "Peter has spoken through Pope ____!"

Like I said, I can easily reason it out historically.



Why do you believe that Peter had the keys and that he was the first pope? What do you think the "keys" were, and why do you believe Peter alone had them?


Because Christ gave Peter the keys and did not give the keys to anyone else.

The keys were "the keys to the kingdom of heaven". Mighty important and powerful keys!


Why do you believe that? Why do you believe we should read it that way?


Because God said it, and I don't believe God plays little word games with us.

[16] Simon Peter answered and said: Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God. [17] And Jesus answering, said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven. [18] And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. [19] And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.



How do you know what the "keys" are in this passage and that said keys were then handed down to future successors to Peter?


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 Post subject: Re: How would you respond -If you died 2nite where would you go?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:34 pm 
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Calvinist wrote:
[16] Simon Peter answered and said: Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God. [17] And Jesus answering, said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven. [18] And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. [19] And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.

(1). How do you know what the "keys" are in this passage and (2). that said keys were then handed down to future successors to Peter?


(1). The passage clearly states that the keys are "the keys of the kingdom of heaven." What do you think they are?

(2). Because the Church has always believed it. Who am I to doubt it?


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 Post subject: Re: How would you respond -If you died 2nite where would you go?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:23 pm 
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pax wrote:
Calvinist wrote:
[16] Simon Peter answered and said: Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God. [17] And Jesus answering, said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven. [18] And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. [19] And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.

(1). How do you know what the "keys" are in this passage and (2). that said keys were then handed down to future successors to Peter?


(1). The passage clearly states that the keys are "the keys of the kingdom of heaven." What do you think they are?


Are you infallibly declaring that to be true? I didn't think we were allowed to do that.
Quote:

(2). Because the Church has always believed it. Who am I to doubt it?


Why would you believe the catholic church's teaching on this?


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 Post subject: Re: How would you respond -If you died 2nite where would you go?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:28 pm 
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Calvinist wrote:
pax wrote:
Calvinist wrote:
Who here doesn't believe the catholic church isn't God's church? I realize there are a few non-catholics on this board, but of the others...who doesn't believe it is?


I believe the holy Roman Catholic Church and the Mystical Body of Christ are one and the same thing because a Pope infallibly told me so, not because I infallibly told me so.


Why do you trust the Pope to infallibly tell you want it is?


Because Christ said he would have the truth. Why do you trust a man to tell you what the truth is (i.e. Calvin).


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 Post subject: Re: How would you respond -If you died 2nite where would you go?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:30 pm 
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Calvinist wrote:
pax wrote:
Calvinist wrote:
pax wrote:
Calvinist wrote:
Who here doesn't believe the catholic church isn't God's church? I realize there are a few non-catholics on this board, but of the others...who doesn't believe it is?


I believe the holy Roman Catholic Church and the Mystical Body of Christ are one and the same thing because a Pope infallibly told me so, not because I infallibly told me so.


Why do you trust the Pope to infallibly tell you want it is?


The gift of faith. I can reason it out historically, but I need the gift of faith to actually believe it.



So you trust that the catholic church is God's church and the Pope is his voice on earth out of faith?

I'm flabbergasted by that. I'm sorry...but nowhere in scripture are we told to have faith in a man, or the church. To me, that is simply idolatry. I don't mean to poke you in the eye there...but that's just not good.


I'm flabbergasted that you have such a lack of knowledge of the Word of God...seriously.


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 Post subject: Re: How would you respond -If you died 2nite where would you go?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:31 pm 
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Calvinist wrote:
pax wrote:

He gave the keys to Peter alone. Those early Councils that you accept, what do they say about the decisions of the Bishops of Rome to ratify their teachings? "Peter has spoken through Pope ____!"

Like I said, I can easily reason it out historically.



Why do you believe that Peter had the keys and that he was the first pope? What do you think the "keys" were, and why do you believe Peter alone had them?


Once again, because Christ told us he had the keys...do you seriously read the Book? Mt. 16. Look it up.


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