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 Post subject: Re: A test for Sola Scripturists
PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 4:03 pm 
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EtcumSpiri22-0 wrote:
Mithrandir wrote:
EtcumSpiri22-0 wrote:
Again ... you are using the Scripture you seem to question above to now validate your position.


Speaking to your assertion...
And that is exactly what Jesus did in revelation 3.

His word was the plumb line... He illustrated that the Churches are only as good as their adherence to his word.
"God exalts his word above his own name" Psalm 138:2
... which is exalted above every name.

Strawman.

I've given you my position on Scripture. Why don't you address that instead of making stuff up.




The O/P was challenging the concept that Scripture validated itself.


Scripture-the NT-was written by men of the Church. Therefore the Church validates Scripture. Scripture cannot validate itself, it is an inanimate object. The written word requires the authoritative voice of the Church.

You can have your opinion that the Scripture is inspired and inerrant, we share that. But you really have no real authority to proclaim that beyond your own subjective beliefs separate from the Church. Much less to proclaim what doctrines are "true" and which ones are "false" based on that same subjective opinion.

EtcumSpiri22-0 wrote:
.. that is what I was referring to.

I think our difference lyes in the Cathlocentric definition you ascribe to the Church.


Please explain how your "church" mimics all of the doctrines and practices of the Bible and the Church? Never mind, I know it doesn't simply based on my own evangelical protestant experience.

I don't recall that they followed anything more than their opinions of what they said was "Scripture".

What you call "Cathlocentric," I call historical fact. I would present even a sliver of the volumes of historical evidence, but I doubt that you'd honestly even look at it, so I won't waste the time.

The only "Myth"s around here are the arguments you present in favor of your theology.


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 Post subject: Re: A test for Sola Scripturists
PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 5:33 pm 
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Mithrandir wrote:
EtcumSpiri22-0 wrote:
Mithrandir wrote:
EtcumSpiri22-0 wrote:
Again ... you are using the Scripture you seem to question above to now validate your position.


Speaking to your assertion...
And that is exactly what Jesus did in revelation 3.

His word was the plumb line... He illustrated that the Churches are only as good as their adherence to his word.
"God exalts his word above his own name" Psalm 138:2
... which is exalted above every name.

Strawman.

I've given you my position on Scripture. Why don't you address that instead of making stuff up.




The O/P was challenging the concept that Scripture validated itself.


Scripture-the NT-was written by men of the Church. Therefore the Church validates Scripture.


Thats an alternative theory and a different topic.
The O/P questions whether Scripture can be validated by reference to scripture alone.

You say the words of Scripture is an inanimate object ...

The Scripture says...

"the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart."

Hebrews 4:12


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 Post subject: Re: A test for Sola Scripturists
PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:34 pm 
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EtcumSpiri22-0 wrote:
Mithrandir wrote:
EtcumSpiri22-0 wrote:
Mithrandir wrote:
EtcumSpiri22-0 wrote:
Again ... you are using the Scripture you seem to question above to now validate your position.


Speaking to your assertion...
And that is exactly what Jesus did in revelation 3.

His word was the plumb line... He illustrated that the Churches are only as good as their adherence to his word.
"God exalts his word above his own name" Psalm 138:2
... which is exalted above every name.

Strawman.

I've given you my position on Scripture. Why don't you address that instead of making stuff up.




The O/P was challenging the concept that Scripture validated itself.


Scripture-the NT-was written by men of the Church. Therefore the Church validates Scripture.


Thats an alternative theory and a different topic.
The O/P questions whether Scripture can be validated by reference to scripture alone.

FTFY

Because YOU and others like you claim "Bible Alone." If Jesus and the Apostles had always intended to go by the "Bible Alone" then it follows that they would have at least explicitly said so.

Yet the Bible is silent.

That if Jesus and the Apostles intended to go by the "Bible Alone" that either Jesus would have commanded, or the Holy Spirit would have inspired, that the Apostles at least MENTION which books of their writings would be contained in the Bible so that it would be KNOWN what is Scripture and what is not.

Yet the Bible is silent.

The OP asks people like you to explain this.

EtcumSpiri22-0 wrote:
You say the words of Scripture is an inanimate object ...

Strawman. That's not what I said.

EtcumSpiri22-0 wrote:
The Scripture says...

"the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart."

Hebrews 4:12


And as I demonstrated with "marc" the Word of God in the context is Jesus, the Son of God, not Scripture. You're ripping Scripture out of context as a pretext. :nooo:


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 Post subject: Re: A test for Sola Scripturists
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:09 am 
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EtcumSpiri22-0 wrote:
Alexandros wrote:
You can't prove all 4 Gospels are to be considered Scripture using Scripture alone, that is the point.



Jesus never assumed a defensive position. He assumed that he was the truth and gave clear/ simple instructions on how the hearer can prove truth.
He never tried to convince anyone. He told the Jewish leaders they were hypocrites because they refused to listen to the truth. He assumed that they, and everyone, have that innate ability.
... the same ability that he used to speak the truth is in the hearer... to hear the truth.
Jesus assumed that conscience (the Holy Spirit) trumped everything.

Jesus said... "I only do what I see" (know) John 5: 19
Based on his obedience to God the Father ...Jesus assumes infallibility ipso facto. He also assumes that people have the ability to choose to see the truth of his words and those that he endorses ... or not.... again ipso facto.

Jesus said: "If you obey my words you will know" John 8:32

He said clearly " I have the words that produce life"...
But ... putting the weight of proof/responsibility on the hearer ... he said:
"when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?" Luke 18:8

When he sent the 72 disciples out he said ... "Speak" ... if they reject you ... shake the dust off and leave. Because of obedience... The words themselves had convincing power. Jesus, who has all power in heaven and earth... Knew how to communicate the gospel ...he assumed that the hearer also had power Ipso facto...to accept or reject, ... and the responsibility was on the hearer.
--------
If you begin to question the voracity of Scripture... It follows that the voracity of all Christianity comes into question.


You post does not answer my question.

I am questioning your belief system. Why? Because Christianity does not solely rely on the Bible.
Thus:

Please show me in Scripture where it says the Gospel of John is Scripture and belongs in the Bible.

The point is that you can’t and therefore this system of using Scripture alone as “the word” and a means of containing all Christian doctrine cannot hold – Christianity has never functioned like this until protestants claimed that it did, a novel tradition of man in opposition to the teaching of Jesus Christ.

_________________
-Alexander
"The proof of love is to suffer for the one you love." -St. Pio


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 Post subject: Re: A test for Sola Scripturists
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:12 pm 
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Jesus obeyed the Word of God, not man. He was subject to it. If some leaders” view of inspiration were true, Jesus was subject to an errant, rather casually thrown-together “Word of Man.” Jesus would have been subject, then, to the will of man, not the will of God.
However, in all the details of His acts of redemption, Jesus was subject to Scripture as God’s Word. He obeyed it. It was His authority, the rule by which He lived. He came to do God’s will, not His own, and not man’s. Note how all of His life He did things because they were written—as if God had directly commanded. He fulfilled Old Testament prophecies about Himself. The passages are found all over the Old Testament. I cite here only a very few quoted in the New Testament: Matthew 11:10; 26:24, 53–56; Mark 9:12, 13; Luke 4:17–21; 18:31–33; 22:37; 24:44–47.
He Himself is the Word of God. All the words from His lips were the Word of God. (John 3:34). If He had desired, He could have written a new set of rules and they would have been the Word of God. But, He did not. He followed without question the Bible already penned by men.
This is the sensible thing for every believer to do. May all who read this adopt Jesus” attitude and become subject both to Him as Living Word (living Torah) and to the Bible as the infallible, written Word of God.
The holy Scriptures … make you wise to accept God’s salvation (Hebrew Yeshua) by trusting in Christ Jesus (Hebrew Yeshua HaMashiach). The whole Bible was given to us by inspiration from God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives; it straightens us out and helps us do what is right. It is God’s way of making us well prepared at every point, fully equipped to do good to everyone. – II Timothy, Chapter 3, Verses 15–17, Living Bible

Protestants followed the writings of the OT, of the Apostles and the teaching of Christ himself.


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 Post subject: Re: A test for Sola Scripturists
PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:33 pm 
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Alabama12 wrote:
Jesus obeyed the Word of God, not man. He was subject to it. If some leaders” view of inspiration were true, Jesus was subject to an errant, rather casually thrown-together “Word of Man.” Jesus would have been subject, then, to the will of man, not the will of God.
However, in all the details of His acts of redemption, Jesus was subject to Scripture as God’s Word. He obeyed it. It was His authority, the rule by which He lived. He came to do God’s will, not His own, and not man’s. Note how all of His life He did things because they were written—as if God had directly commanded. He fulfilled Old Testament prophecies about Himself. The passages are found all over the Old Testament. I cite here only a very few quoted in the New Testament: Matthew 11:10; 26:24, 53–56; Mark 9:12, 13; Luke 4:17–21; 18:31–33; 22:37; 24:44–47.
He Himself is the Word of God. All the words from His lips were the Word of God. (John 3:34). If He had desired, He could have written a new set of rules and they would have been the Word of God. But, He did not. He followed without question the Bible already penned by men.
This is the sensible thing for every believer to do. May all who read this adopt Jesus” attitude and become subject both to Him as Living Word (living Torah) and to the Bible as the infallible, written Word of God.
The holy Scriptures … make you wise to accept God’s salvation (Hebrew Yeshua) by trusting in Christ Jesus (Hebrew Yeshua HaMashiach). The whole Bible was given to us by inspiration from God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives; it straightens us out and helps us do what is right. It is God’s way of making us well prepared at every point, fully equipped to do good to everyone. – II Timothy, Chapter 3, Verses 15–17, Living Bible

Protestants followed the writings of the OT, of the Apostles and the teaching of Christ himself.


Yet ANOTHER copy and paste job without citing your source.

Give your own words, not those of David Livingston.

Makes me wonder, to they flunk people for plagiarism in school anymore?


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 Post subject: Re: A test for Sola Scripturists
PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 7:27 am 
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kage_ar wrote:
Alabama12 wrote:
Jesus obeyed the Word of God, not man. He was subject to it. If some leaders” view of inspiration were true, Jesus was subject to an errant, rather casually thrown-together “Word of Man.” Jesus would have been subject, then, to the will of man, not the will of God.
However, in all the details of His acts of redemption, Jesus was subject to Scripture as God’s Word. He obeyed it. It was His authority, the rule by which He lived. He came to do God’s will, not His own, and not man’s. Note how all of His life He did things because they were written—as if God had directly commanded. He fulfilled Old Testament prophecies about Himself. The passages are found all over the Old Testament. I cite here only a very few quoted in the New Testament: Matthew 11:10; 26:24, 53–56; Mark 9:12, 13; Luke 4:17–21; 18:31–33; 22:37; 24:44–47.
He Himself is the Word of God. All the words from His lips were the Word of God. (John 3:34). If He had desired, He could have written a new set of rules and they would have been the Word of God. But, He did not. He followed without question the Bible already penned by men.
This is the sensible thing for every believer to do. May all who read this adopt Jesus” attitude and become subject both to Him as Living Word (living Torah) and to the Bible as the infallible, written Word of God.
The holy Scriptures … make you wise to accept God’s salvation (Hebrew Yeshua) by trusting in Christ Jesus (Hebrew Yeshua HaMashiach). The whole Bible was given to us by inspiration from God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives; it straightens us out and helps us do what is right. It is God’s way of making us well prepared at every point, fully equipped to do good to everyone. – II Timothy, Chapter 3, Verses 15–17, Living Bible

Protestants followed the writings of the OT, of the Apostles and the teaching of Christ himself.


Yet ANOTHER copy and paste job without citing your source.

Give your own words, not those of David Livingston.

Makes me wonder, to they flunk people for plagiarism in school anymore?


Maybe he is Dr. Livingston?


GKC


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 Post subject: Re: A test for Sola Scripturists
PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 7:43 am 
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Dr. Livingston, I presume?


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 Post subject: Re: A test for Sola Scripturists
PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 7:44 am 
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Except for the last sentence, the C&Ped material is more or less correct.


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 Post subject: Re: A test for Sola Scripturists
PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:31 am 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Dr. Livingston, I presume?




:mrgreen:


GKC


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 Post subject: Re: A test for Sola Scripturists
PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:02 am 
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kage_ar wrote:
Alabama12 wrote:
Jesus obeyed the Word of God, not man. He was subject to it. If some leaders” view of inspiration were true, Jesus was subject to an errant, rather casually thrown-together “Word of Man.” Jesus would have been subject, then, to the will of man, not the will of God.
However, in all the details of His acts of redemption, Jesus was subject to Scripture as God’s Word. He obeyed it. It was His authority, the rule by which He lived. He came to do God’s will, not His own, and not man’s. Note how all of His life He did things because they were written—as if God had directly commanded. He fulfilled Old Testament prophecies about Himself. The passages are found all over the Old Testament. I cite here only a very few quoted in the New Testament: Matthew 11:10; 26:24, 53–56; Mark 9:12, 13; Luke 4:17–21; 18:31–33; 22:37; 24:44–47.
He Himself is the Word of God. All the words from His lips were the Word of God. (John 3:34). If He had desired, He could have written a new set of rules and they would have been the Word of God. But, He did not. He followed without question the Bible already penned by men.
This is the sensible thing for every believer to do. May all who read this adopt Jesus” attitude and become subject both to Him as Living Word (living Torah) and to the Bible as the infallible, written Word of God.
The holy Scriptures … make you wise to accept God’s salvation (Hebrew Yeshua) by trusting in Christ Jesus (Hebrew Yeshua HaMashiach). The whole Bible was given to us by inspiration from God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives; it straightens us out and helps us do what is right. It is God’s way of making us well prepared at every point, fully equipped to do good to everyone. – II Timothy, Chapter 3, Verses 15–17, Living Bible

Protestants followed the writings of the OT, of the Apostles and the teaching of Christ himself.


Yet ANOTHER copy and paste job without citing your source.

Give your own words, not those of David Livingston.

Makes me wonder, to they flunk people for plagiarism in school anymore?


Your complaint's about bad form aside for a moment ... Whats the matter with David Livingston's thoughts?


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 Post subject: Re: A test for Sola Scripturists
PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 1:17 pm 
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EtcumSpiri22-0 wrote:
kage_ar wrote:
Alabama12 wrote:
Jesus obeyed the Word of God, not man. He was subject to it. If some leaders” view of inspiration were true, Jesus was subject to an errant, rather casually thrown-together “Word of Man.” Jesus would have been subject, then, to the will of man, not the will of God.
However, in all the details of His acts of redemption, Jesus was subject to Scripture as God’s Word. He obeyed it. It was His authority, the rule by which He lived. He came to do God’s will, not His own, and not man’s. Note how all of His life He did things because they were written—as if God had directly commanded. He fulfilled Old Testament prophecies about Himself. The passages are found all over the Old Testament. I cite here only a very few quoted in the New Testament: Matthew 11:10; 26:24, 53–56; Mark 9:12, 13; Luke 4:17–21; 18:31–33; 22:37; 24:44–47.
He Himself is the Word of God. All the words from His lips were the Word of God. (John 3:34). If He had desired, He could have written a new set of rules and they would have been the Word of God. But, He did not. He followed without question the Bible already penned by men.
This is the sensible thing for every believer to do. May all who read this adopt Jesus” attitude and become subject both to Him as Living Word (living Torah) and to the Bible as the infallible, written Word of God.
The holy Scriptures … make you wise to accept God’s salvation (Hebrew Yeshua) by trusting in Christ Jesus (Hebrew Yeshua HaMashiach). The whole Bible was given to us by inspiration from God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives; it straightens us out and helps us do what is right. It is God’s way of making us well prepared at every point, fully equipped to do good to everyone. – II Timothy, Chapter 3, Verses 15–17, Living Bible

Protestants followed the writings of the OT, of the Apostles and the teaching of Christ himself.


Yet ANOTHER copy and paste job without citing your source.

Give your own words, not those of David Livingston.

Makes me wonder, to they flunk people for plagiarism in school anymore?


Your complaint's about bad form aside for a moment ... Whats the matter with David Livingston's thoughts?


I defer to the opinion of Fr Kenobi.


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 Post subject: Re: A test for Sola Scripturists
PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 12:12 am 
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kage_ar wrote:
EtcumSpiri22-0 wrote:
kage_ar wrote:
Alabama12 wrote:
Jesus obeyed the Word of God, not man. He was subject to it. If some leaders” view of inspiration were true, Jesus was subject to an errant, rather casually thrown-together “Word of Man.” Jesus would have been subject, then, to the will of man, not the will of God.
However, in all the details of His acts of redemption, Jesus was subject to Scripture as God’s Word. He obeyed it. It was His authority, the rule by which He lived. He came to do God’s will, not His own, and not man’s. Note how all of His life He did things because they were written—as if God had directly commanded. He fulfilled Old Testament prophecies about Himself. The passages are found all over the Old Testament. I cite here only a very few quoted in the New Testament: Matthew 11:10; 26:24, 53–56; Mark 9:12, 13; Luke 4:17–21; 18:31–33; 22:37; 24:44–47.
He Himself is the Word of God. All the words from His lips were the Word of God. (John 3:34). If He had desired, He could have written a new set of rules and they would have been the Word of God. But, He did not. He followed without question the Bible already penned by men.
This is the sensible thing for every believer to do. May all who read this adopt Jesus” attitude and become subject both to Him as Living Word (living Torah) and to the Bible as the infallible, written Word of God.
The holy Scriptures … make you wise to accept God’s salvation (Hebrew Yeshua) by trusting in Christ Jesus (Hebrew Yeshua HaMashiach). The whole Bible was given to us by inspiration from God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives; it straightens us out and helps us do what is right. It is God’s way of making us well prepared at every point, fully equipped to do good to everyone. – II Timothy, Chapter 3, Verses 15–17, Living Bible

Protestants followed the writings of the OT, of the Apostles and the teaching of Christ himself.


Yet ANOTHER copy and paste job without citing your source.

Give your own words, not those of David Livingston.

Makes me wonder, to they flunk people for plagiarism in school anymore?


Your complaint's about bad form aside for a moment ... Whats the matter with David Livingston's thoughts?


I defer to the opinion of Fr Kenobi.


:)


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 Post subject: Re: A test for Sola Scripturists
PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 1:55 am 
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Ec2 wrote:

Quote:
Whats the matter with David Livingston's thoughts?


Well I would say for starters, the idea that Jesus got his authority from the OT. I rather think that it is the other way around, that the OT got it's authority from Jesus seeing as the God who inspired the OT & Jesus are one & the same.


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 Post subject: Re: A test for Sola Scripturists
PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 4:47 am 
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Alabama12 wrote:

Quote:
Jesus obeyed the Word of God, not man. He was subject to it. If some leaders” view of inspiration were true, Jesus was subject to an errant, rather casually thrown-together “Word of Man.” Jesus would have been subject, then, to the will of man, not the will of God.
However, in all the details of His acts of redemption, Jesus was subject to Scripture as God’s Word. He obeyed it. It was His authority, the rule by which He lived. He came to do God’s will, not His own, and not man’s. Note how all of His life He did things because they were written—as if God had directly commanded. He fulfilled Old Testament prophecies about Himself. The passages are found all over the Old Testament. I cite here only a very few quoted in the New Testament: Matthew 11:10; 26:24, 53–56; Mark 9:12, 13; Luke 4:17–21; 18:31–33; 22:37; 24:44–47.
He Himself is the Word of God. All the words from His lips were the Word of God. (John 3:34). If He had desired, He could have written a new set of rules and they would have been the Word of God. But, He did not. He followed without question the Bible already penned by men.
This is the sensible thing for every believer to do. May all who read this adopt Jesus” attitude and become subject both to Him as Living Word (living Torah) and to the Bible as the infallible, written Word of God.
The holy Scriptures … make you wise to accept God’s salvation (Hebrew Yeshua) by trusting in Christ Jesus (Hebrew Yeshua HaMashiach). The whole Bible was given to us by inspiration from God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives; it straightens us out and helps us do what is right. It is God’s way of making us well prepared at every point, fully equipped to do good to everyone. – II Timothy, Chapter 3, Verses 15–17, Living Bible

Protestants followed the writings of the OT, of the Apostles and the teaching of Christ himself.


Hi there Alabama12, since you believe scripture is the only authority to go by I was wondering what you make of :

Jude 6-9 : ” yet when Michael the archangel was fiercely disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, he did not venture to bring against him an accusation of blasphemy, but said ‘may the lord rebuke thee’.”

This reference to Michael’s altercation with the devil over the body of Moses was taken from some tradition apparently familiar to the readers he was addressing but nowhere recorded in scripture!

If the apostles subscribed to sola scriptura why do you suppose they referenced this tradition which is no where mentioned in scripture?

You assert that protestants follow the writings of the OT & yet :

In St. John 10, 22-36 Our Lord & the Apostles observed the key feast of the Dedication, or Hanukkah, which celebrates events only recorded in 1 & 2 Maccabees ......so on what grounds do protestants reject these books?

Where does Jesus tell us which books belong in the Bible? How do you know the NT is inspired seeing as Jesus obviously didn't refer to them like He did the OT?


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 Post subject: Re: A test for Sola Scripturists
PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 11:01 am 
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cjg wrote:
Alabama12 wrote:

Quote:
Jesus obeyed the Word of God, not man. He was subject to it. If some leaders” view of inspiration were true, Jesus was subject to an errant, rather casually thrown-together “Word of Man.” Jesus would have been subject, then, to the will of man, not the will of God.
However, in all the details of His acts of redemption, Jesus was subject to Scripture as God’s Word. He obeyed it. It was His authority, the rule by which He lived. He came to do God’s will, not His own, and not man’s. Note how all of His life He did things because they were written—as if God had directly commanded. He fulfilled Old Testament prophecies about Himself. The passages are found all over the Old Testament. I cite here only a very few quoted in the New Testament: Matthew 11:10; 26:24, 53–56; Mark 9:12, 13; Luke 4:17–21; 18:31–33; 22:37; 24:44–47.
He Himself is the Word of God. All the words from His lips were the Word of God. (John 3:34). If He had desired, He could have written a new set of rules and they would have been the Word of God. But, He did not. He followed without question the Bible already penned by men.
This is the sensible thing for every believer to do. May all who read this adopt Jesus” attitude and become subject both to Him as Living Word (living Torah) and to the Bible as the infallible, written Word of God.
The holy Scriptures … make you wise to accept God’s salvation (Hebrew Yeshua) by trusting in Christ Jesus (Hebrew Yeshua HaMashiach). The whole Bible was given to us by inspiration from God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives; it straightens us out and helps us do what is right. It is God’s way of making us well prepared at every point, fully equipped to do good to everyone. – II Timothy, Chapter 3, Verses 15–17, Living Bible

Protestants followed the writings of the OT, of the Apostles and the teaching of Christ himself.


Hi there Alabama12, since you believe scripture is the only authority to go by I was wondering what you make of :

Jude 6-9 : ” yet when Michael the archangel was fiercely disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, he did not venture to bring against him an accusation of blasphemy, but said ‘may the lord rebuke thee’.”

This reference to Michael’s altercation with the devil over the body of Moses was taken from some tradition apparently familiar to the readers he was addressing but nowhere recorded in scripture!

If the apostles subscribed to sola scriptura why do you suppose they referenced this tradition which is no where mentioned in scripture?

You assert that protestants follow the writings of the OT & yet :

In St. John 10, 22-36 Our Lord & the Apostles observed the key feast of the Dedication, or Hanukkah, which celebrates events only recorded in 1 & 2 Maccabees ......so on what grounds do protestants reject these books?

Where does Jesus tell us which books belong in the Bible? How do you know the NT is inspired seeing as Jesus obviously didn't refer to them like He did the OT?


Sola Scriptura is the teaching that the Scriptures contain all the written information necessary to understand how to obtain salvation and proper living before God.


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 Post subject: Re: A test for Sola Scripturists
PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 12:29 pm 
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EtcumSpiri22-0 wrote:

Sola Scriptura is the teaching that the Scriptures contain all the written information necessary to understand how to obtain salvation and proper living before God.


In a sense that is something a Catholic may be able to agree on(with some caveats).

The problem is that I don't think your definition above is even a widely accepted definition among protestants much less a universal one.

And the issue of the thread is not whether "Scripture contains all the written information necessary to understand how to obtain salvation and a proper living before God," the issue is what is Scripture in that what books are "Scripture"?

If you hold up a NKJV, or an NIV, or whatever version you are using and say "this is Scripture", how do you know? What do you base that on? Do you base that on Scripture or on the authority of the publisher of that version you have in your hand?

The if sola-scriptura was actually taught why is it mentioned nowhere in Scripture what Scriptures make-up or constitute "Scripture"? That's the reason for the question, "where in Scripture is the list explaining what books make up the Bible?"


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 Post subject: Re: A test for Sola Scripturists
PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 1:04 am 
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Sola Scriptura, like the Scriptures themselves, recognizes that God has gifted the church with teachers and pastors. It recognizes that the church has progressed and reached consensus on critical issues in and through the ancient ecumenical creeds. It affirms with vigor that we are all standing on the shoulders of giants. But it also affirms that even these giants have feet of clay. And there is where the Bible does in the end teach sola Scriptura. Sola Scriptura is a biblical doctrine not because the Bible says so. That would be a tautology- the kind of argument we find in that collection of lies the Book of Mormon. Instead the Bible is our alone final authority because it alone is the Word of God. It has been attested, authenticated, by God Himself. Miracles serve as the divine imprimatur, the proof that this is a message of God. This is how Nicodemus reasoned when he said, “Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him” (John 3:2). This is also how Jesus Himself reasoned when He first forgave the sins of the paralytic lowered through the roof. In response to the unspoken charge that He had blasphemed, Jesus told the man, “Arise, take up your bed, and go to your house” (Matthew 9:1-8).
...R.C. Sproul Jr.

http://www.ligonier.org/blog/sola-scriptura-bible/


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 Post subject: Re: A test for Sola Scripturists
PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 1:43 am 
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Double post.


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 Post subject: Re: A test for Sola Scripturists
PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 3:31 am 
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Ec2 wrote:

Quote:
Instead the Bible is our alone final authority because it alone is the Word of God. It has been attested, authenticated, by God Himself. Miracles serve as the divine imprimatur, the proof that this is a message of God.


But the bible doesn't anywhere claim to be "our alone final authority." We accept the bible to be the word of God because as you say it has been authenticated by God Himself through His Catholic Church which is "the pillar & foundation of the truth" (1Tim3:15). Christ promised to guide His church unto all truth (John 16:13), it is on the authority of the church that we accept the bible to be the word of God. I agree with what you quoted about miracles being the "divine imprimatur" but what you are failing to acknowledge is that [b] the miracle is the Catholic Church[b]. Failing to acknowledge the authority of the catholic church whilst accepting that the bible (which is the product of it's sacred traditions) is the word of God, is absurd.

Why do you believe that the bible contains the fullness of revelation necessary for our salvation?

In Matthew 28:20 Jesus says “observe all that i have commanded you.” And yet we also know that not all that Jesus taught was recorded in scripture ( see Jn20:30), if it where John writes ….”the world itself could not contain the books that would be written”(Jn21:25)

How do you know you are observing all that Jesus has commanded?


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