How do you now that Paul actually said that? Where is your proof? I know that he said that because Christ's Church says that he said that. So, again, how do you now that Paul said that? What proof would you offer to a non-believer that Paul said that?
I know it because we have manuscript evidence to support it, and because the early church declared it.
Please document your answer.
That isn't an answer, that is a deflection. Answer my question or I'm going to have to resort to putting you on post moderation until you comply.
I'm sorry if you don't like my answer, but I think it's a perfectly valid point.
You didn't answer my question at all. You are being dishonest.
You and the others here point at the early church and state that it was the catholic church. That's a fallacy called "begging the question". You have not established that point.
St. Ignatius of Antioch is an Apostolic Father. His writings call the Church the Catholic Church.
You make no sense, since the Apostles upheld Tradition, so I'm going to assume that you are just tossing stuff out to see what you can get to stick.
What tradition? Do you mean the writings and teachings of their contemporaries?
What tradition were you talking about?
Holy Scripture is part of Sacred Tradition. How can it not be?
That is your opinion, based on nothing more than your opinion.
I think it's a valid concern. You have yet to make the case. I'm challenging you to do this if you're going to use this argument.
You made the claim that the Catholic Church of today is not the same as the early Church. I think you should prove your case first and show us exactly how your church is the same as the early church and show us your unbroken history back to Pentecost. History makes my case for me. No church other than the Catholic Church can trace their history back to Pentecost, so you start out at a marked disadvantage. I don't blame you for not wanting to attempt such a task.
Yes, it is.
No...it really isn't. But again...you make the assertion, so it's up to you to prove it.
You haven't proven your own assertions, so why should I?
There are denominations which deny the Holy Trinity and they use the Bible to support their belief.
They aren't "denominations". They are heretical heterodoxes. The Trinity is an essential doctrine. If you deny it, you are not a Christian.
Where do you find that in the Bible? Please cite the book(s) and verse(s).
Those councils were Catholic councils.
Any council which defined the doctrines of the Church was a Catholic council. Name the ones you are referring to and I'll show you.
How about including my original response in your response so that I don't have to open another tab to search for whatever it is you are responding to.
You accept their teaching on the Trinity, but not their teaching on Purgatory and the Eucharist?
What teachings would those be?
Those would be the teachings on Purgatory and the Eucharist.
Can you give me a quote from a church council?
Purgatory - Council of Florence and Council of Trent
The faith of the Church concerning purgatory is clearly expressed in the Decree of Union drawn up by the Council of Florence (Mansi, t. XXXI, col. 1031), and in the decree of the Council of Trent which (Sess. XXV) defined:
"Whereas the Catholic Church, instructed by the Holy Ghost, has from the Sacred Scriptures and the ancient tradition of the Fathers taught in Councils and very recently in this Ecumenical synod (Sess. VI, cap. XXX; Sess. XXII cap.ii, iii) that there is a purgatory, and that the souls therein are helped by the suffrages of the faithful, but principally by the acceptable Sacrifice of the Altar; the Holy Synod enjoins on the Bishops that they diligently endeavor to have the sound doctrine of the Fathers in Councils regarding purgatory everywhere taught and preached, held and believed by the faithful" (Denzinger, "Enchiridon", 983).
I'm not going to get into the proofs for Purgatory in this thread. You can find dozens of threads on Purgatory on this board. I suggest you look them up or refer to the Catholic Encyclopedia for more information.
Eucharist - First Council of Nicea, Council of Trent XIII
We can see from St. Ignatius of Antioch that the Eucharist was part of the early liturgy.
"They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they confess not the Eucharist to be the flesh of our Saviour Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins, and which the Father, of His goodness, raised up again"
Ignatius of Antioch,Epistle to Smyrnaeans,7,1(c.A.D. 110),in ANF,I:89
Again with the "fuzzy quote" claim of which you cannot even provide one example. Your honesty is at stake here, Calvinist.
sigh. Did you not read my post either? I have not said you gave a "fuzzy quote".
I asked you for an example of what would constitute a fuzzy quote since you claim that Catholics often offer them. If you know that Catholics often offer fuzzy ECF quotes, then you should be able to provide an example of a Catholic offering a fuzzy ECF quote. I don't know how to make it any simpler for your level of understanding.
Signum Crucis wrote:
I'm restricting him to this forum.
You can't answer me so you censor me? Wow....
How is restricting you to this forum censoring you? The fact is that Catholicism 101 and The Lyceum and Solesmes are for Catholics and those sincerely inquiring into the Catholic faith. I don't believe that you fit either description.