Ok, I replied to a post regarding speaking in tongues, but didn’t include some interesting data regarding the churches in which I personally observed displays of the (what I will here call “alleged”) ‘charism.’

Starting around age 5, I observed many women clad in long (mostly denim) skirts, long sleeve shirts, hair on top of their heads ranging from buns to “beehives,” no makeup because the preacher said makeup was for Jezebels. These women, during some faster paced piano music, post-sermon, would be standing up, shouting “amen, hallelujah” etc., waving hands, and sometimes dangerously swinging arms and backhanding me in the head or face, causing me to develop an affinity for the space under the pews while my mother was behaving likewise and unable to see where I was going.

They, as well as some of the men, also had a proclivity for a fast paced foot shuffling type dance when speaking in tongues or shouting whatever they were shouting.

Now, being “slain in the Spirit” was another apparent phenomenon in these churches. A member would be up front, preacher laying his hand on member’s forehead, and the members would fall backwards as if unconscious, yet sometimes speaking in tongues, and occasionally still aware enough to take a glance behind them before they hit the floor.....

I personally once found myself up front being prayed for by a preacher, his hand on my forehead, and he was pushing away as if trying to push me over backwards. He gave up and I walked back to my seat after the prayer. However, it stands as a confirmation in my memory that had I wished, I could’ve cooperated with HIM and totally faked being slain in the spirit like so many others I’d witnessed.

All that having been said, I’ll not claim that IF He wished, God couldn’t do such a thing, only that I’ve witnessed such things being clearly faked in Pentecostal churches, not to mention myriad other false presentations of spiritual gifts such as prophecy and the like. As a matter of fact, one of the preachers about whom I’m thinking is currently listed on snopes.com as a false prophet, and 2.5 years ago did my fathers funersl, at which he told more lies than I could count, and managed to enrage my family to the point that my own mother will no longer speak to the guy, who was once her beloved preacher....

Now, do I have a bit of personal anger against some Pentecostals? Yep, a bit. However, I consider it to be well grounded and righteous anger.....

I thought perhaps adding these personal notes might be of assistance in others’ understanding of the “very” Pentecostal churches.
I’m familiar with snake handlers as well if anyone has questions, but that’s 2nd hand info.

Ya all take care,

~S

Doesn't everyone think their anger is righteous?

Ay, I remembered the post but not the verdict, so I just left it unattributed.

The even more important point from St. Augustine is that even righteous anger can be toxic:

Confession time.

I hold some bitterness, less than when I converted, but it's a sin with deep roots, and I pray God will drive it out.

When you leave Protestantism and you just look back on your early years as wandering in a desert where no water could be found. I understand, it was infuriating to visit the churches in the Netherlands that my ancestors stripped bear and took over.

But in the end, bitterness just hurts me, it doesn't help anything.

<deleted - just TMI>

As someone who was involved (sort of) with charismania in the Catholic Church, went through the Life in the Spirit Seminars, have worked in Youth Ministry for years creating emotionally inspiring events for kids, I don't think these manifestations are themselves spiritual, but only a condition that any human can put himself in to be more receptive to suggestion... whether human, divine, or demonic. I think it is sort of a self-hypnosis.

That is not to criticize it outright. I think successful therapies sometimes lean on strategies that breakdown a person's defenses and inhibitions to "let go" and be receptive to positive suggestion. It is just a trait that we have. Powerful music, dark rooms, candles and fire, close friends, etc can be put together to create a powerful experience that allows a person to "let go" and be moved. Liturgy with all of its beauty knows this.

The danger, however, is that since it is merely a state we can get into when the conditions are right, then it can happen when the surrounding influences are NOT spiritually good. I am reminded of the awful scene in the second Matrix when the crowd is stirred to a huge orgy. Or any dance club around 1am when a local favorite with a strong beat, a little alcohol, etc stir the crowd into a frenzy.

In short, I think we were built in a way to experience these moments, but only in the right conditions. They open us up to suggestion which, when properly done, can open us up to suggestion from divinely inspired sources, including the Holy Spirit Himself. But, they can also be utilized by darker forces as well. So, the trick is making sure one is in the right place when one decides to allow the situation to make them "let go" and be influenced. The letting go itself, imho, is not what is necessarily from God. It is like the controversial hypnosis treatment. Perhaps it is OK to undergo when you are with the right therapist, but it doesn't change the fact that you are allowing yourself to be intimately influenced by another person. If that person is not good, then you are putting yourself in danger.

Just recently I came across a Youtube video where it looked like a charismatic gathering. The music was beautiful, the people were happy, and I felt myself being moved by it. Then, after a few more moments, I realized that it was a completely secular gathering and the song lyrics revealed that it was just a feel good secular song about being nice or whatever. But, I believe the people were having the same sweeping response that you could find in a charismatic renewal meeting. Heck, I was also starting to feel it. So, I think these manifestations are just part of the human ability to be open to deep spiritual experiences such that they "take over." But, they can happen in situations where you would be better to resist and protect yourself.

FJ

FJ:

Thank you for your balanced explanation.