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 Post subject: Re: Speaking in tongues
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 4:03 am 
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Quote:
"But what comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart, and this defiles a person." Matthew 15:18
Gracie2004 wrote:
AJ wrote:
Where does Jesus say that only evil people speak out of their mouths that which is in their heart? Jesus is giving a principle that applies to ALL people.


He says it right in the Scripture...are you really that blind?

"How can you speak good, when you are evil?"

Did you even READ that Scripture, AJ?
Yep, Here it is;

Matt 12:34, "For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. The good person out of his good treasure brings forth good, and the evil person out of his evil treasure brings forth evil.

The very next words after "out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks" indicate that the good person speaks good things out of their mouth that come from their good heart.

Tell me, was Peter out of order when he judged the state of Simon the Sorcerer's heart?

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 Post subject: Re: Speaking in tongues
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 11:39 am 
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ajw333 wrote:
]
Quote:
"But what comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart, and this defiles a person." Matthew 15:18
Gracie2004 wrote:
AJ wrote:
Where does Jesus say that only evil people speak out of their mouths that which is in their heart? Jesus is giving a principle that applies to ALL people.


He says it right in the Scripture...are you really that blind?

"How can you speak good, when you are evil?"

Did you even READ that Scripture, AJ?
Yep, Here it is;

Matt 12:34, "For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. The good person out of his good treasure brings forth good, and the evil person out of his evil treasure brings forth evil.

The very next words after "out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks" indicate that the good person speaks good things out of their mouth that come from their good heart.

Tell me, was Peter out of order when he judged the state of Simon the Sorcerer's heart?


AJ..that's not at ALL what Matthew 12:34 says.... it SAYS "You brood of vipers, how can you say good things when you are evil? For from the fullness of the heart the mouth speaks."

It's not NICE to change scripture readings, AJ. This reading speaks DIRECTLY to what we were talking about. Do you really think that those people who were possessed were evil? They were possessed. Christ drove OUT the demons from them. It wasn't THEM speaking, it was the demons speaking. You still cannot judge a persons faith, AJ, even from what you have posted, and you are trying to twist the argument to make scripture seem to say what you want it to say. Stay on task, AJ and stay on argument.

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 Post subject: Re: Speaking in tongues
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 9:06 pm 
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Gracie2004 wrote:
ajw333 wrote:
]
Quote:
"But what comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart, and this defiles a person." Matthew 15:18
Gracie2004 wrote:
AJ wrote:
Where does Jesus say that only evil people speak out of their mouths that which is in their heart? Jesus is giving a principle that applies to ALL people.


He says it right in the Scripture...are you really that blind?

"How can you speak good, when you are evil?"

Did you even READ that Scripture, AJ?
Yep, Here it is;

Matt 12:34, "For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. The good person out of his good treasure brings forth good, and the evil person out of his evil treasure brings forth evil.

The very next words after "out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks" indicate that the good person speaks good things out of their mouth that come from their good heart.

Tell me, was Peter out of order when he judged the state of Simon the Sorcerer's heart?


AJ..that's not at ALL what Matthew 12:34 says.... it SAYS "You brood of vipers, how can you say good things when you are evil? For from the fullness of the heart the mouth speaks."
Why are you disregarding the very next sentence - "The good person out of his good treasure brings forth good?" Do you think it's completely unrelated to the sentence preceding it?

Quote:
It's not NICE to change scripture readings, AJ. This reading speaks DIRECTLY to what we were talking about. Do you really think that those people who were possessed were evil? They were possessed. Christ drove OUT the demons from them. It wasn't THEM speaking, it was the demons speaking. You still cannot judge a persons faith, AJ, even from what you have posted, and you are trying to twist the argument to make scripture seem to say what you want it to say. Stay on task, AJ and stay on argument.
I note that you haven't answered the question whether Peter was out of order judging the state of Simon the Sorcerer's heart - was he?

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 Post subject: Re: Speaking in tongues
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 11:06 pm 
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[/quote]Why are you disregarding the very next sentence - "The good person out of his good treasure brings forth good?" Do you think it's completely unrelated to the sentence preceding it?
Quote:

I never quoted the next sentence, AJ, you added it, but it's ok to be there, it does not contradict in any way what I posted. I posted 12:34, you changed the wording of 12:34


Quote:
I note that you haven't answered the question whether Peter was out of order judging the state of Simon the Sorcerer's heart - was he?


The state of Simons heart has nothing to do with our discussion, therefore, there is nothing to answer. Stay on discussion please.

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 Post subject: Re: Speaking in tongues
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 3:56 pm 
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pax wrote:
Maybe not the level, but this much we know: If they do not profess the true and Catholic Faith, then they do not have any faith.

Reminds me of a quotation from St. John of Damascus (8th cent. A.D.):

"He who does not believe in accordance with the tradition of the Catholic Church is without faith."


Gaudium de veritate,

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 Post subject: Re: Speaking in tongues
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 7:19 pm 
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Cruciform wrote:
pax wrote:
Maybe not the level, but this much we know: If they do not profess the true and Catholic Faith, then they do not have any faith.

Reminds me of a quotation from St. John of Damascus (8th cent. A.D.):

"He who does not believe in accordance with the tradition of the Catholic Church is without faith."


Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+


'Tis true, my lad.

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 Post subject: Re: Speaking in tongues
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:25 pm 
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In my opinion, if you have a gift sometimes you still have to study. I had to study languages at university. I studied French and Spanish. It is possible to have the gift of tongues without studying, but normally you would have to do a course. If I want to learn Italian I have to do a course.


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 Post subject: Re: Speaking in tongues
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:03 pm 
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Innana wrote:
I recently posted about a Protestant friend who thinks he has prophetic gifts. Well, now same friend began "speaking in tongues". He offered to pray for me and began taking in what sounded like mumbling of giberish.
Can someone clarify what exactly is "speaking in tongues"? In NT there is an example of apostles speaking in tongues when each person in crowd heard their own language spoken. This doesn't seem to be the case here so can someone help me out? :scratch:


Without having read all prior responses, as a man who was drug to Pentecostal churches from the age of 4-17, when I just flat rebelled and went to a UMC with my now wife, I wish to respond to this post.

In Acts 2, Day of Pentecost, the initial speaking of tongues by the Apostles is described, second hand by St Luke. Then in 1 Cor 12:10, we’re told that “some” are given the gift of tongues and “some” the interpretation of tongues. Elsewhere, St Paul writes that he speaks in tongues more than “all of you” but would rather they speak one word of prophecy than a thousand in tongues. That is explained in a few ways: 1. To edify the church 2. To not confuse those who weren’t not already part of the ecclesia.

What I personally witnessed in my years in Pentecostal churches both confused the heck out of me at many times, and also educated me on false displays of behaviors that were acts to make others in a congregation thing an individual was definitely “filled with the ‘Holy Ghost’” because they had gotten “the utterance of speaking in tongues.”

To this day, my own 77yo mother will argue with me that there’s a difference between the Holy Soirit and the a Holy Ghost. She says “All bien again Christians have the Holy Soirit,” but not all are “baptized with the Holy Ghost with the utterance of tongues,” as if one who doesn’t babble in in unintelligible sounds while allegedly praying (I think more likely worked into a frenzy by fast paced music and charismatic preachers using brainwashing techniques similar to drill sergeants. Whatever.

As to the OP and my direct answer to what is speaking in tongues, it is a charism that is most often a faked spiritual gift displayed by Pentecostals, as well as the varios sects of that realm, Assemblies of God, Church of God, “Holiness Churches,” “ Full Gospel Churches,” etc.

Saw a documentary a few weeks back, where a neurologist had a guy who would just speak in tongues on demand submit to an MRI study. During the test, the MRI was reading while dude was praying in English. Everything on the scan was normal. The beurologist told him to pray in tongues, and when he did, the activity in his frontal lobe went almost totally off. That’s quite similar to a meditating monk or a pagan in a hyped state jabbering while dancing around a fire.....

Now, I’m NOT saying some folks don’t have the charism if speaking in tongues, or it’s interpre, but that there are probably ten times as many fakers as there are those who truly have the gift, and probably 85-95% of those fakers are in the Oentrcostal realm and use the appearance of having the gift like a varsity jacket on the church’s team....


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