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 Post subject: Re: Church Authority
PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 3:51 pm 
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I was taught that the most common name for a Baptist church in North America is 2nd Baptist Church.

There once was a solitary Baptist who was shipwrecked on a desert island. When he was finally found his rescuers noticed that the Baptist had built three huts on the island. They asked what the three huts were for. "The first hut is my home. The second hut is my church. The third hut is my old church."


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 Post subject: Re: Church Authority
PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 4:41 pm 
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Sons of Thunder
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Hiya, Bumble.

I'm curious what you make of Acts 15 and how it relates to Church authority. Among the points I would note are these: 1) St. Paul, despite his own authority from Christ, appeals to the Church for a final decision. 2) The Church, in responding, speaks in the name of the Holy Spirit. 3) The Church, in its response, particularly points out that the teachers spreading a false doctrine had no mandate from them.

So ... is that Church still around? If not, when did the Church lose its capacity to exercise authority even over those with a direct revelation from Christ, to speak in the name of the Holy Spirit and to decide who is or is not a valid teacher?

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 Post subject: Re: Church Authority
PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 7:01 pm 
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Acts 15 seems to indicate that James (who was bishop at Jerusalem) and not Peter (who WAS present) gave the final decision in the dispute. James apparently listened to all the "arguments", including Paul's and Peter's, then confirmed his judgment with scripture (Acts 15:15-17), and then made a final determination: "Therefore MY judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God, but should write to them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood, etc." (vv. 19-21). The whole body accepted James' decision as final and as having been the will of the Holy Spirit; then they formulated a plan to carry out James's directives. This really seems more Orthodox to me than Catholic...but I would be willing to hear other opinions.

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 Post subject: Re: Church Authority
PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 7:07 pm 
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James spoke last because he was the leader of the Jerusalem party that had been reluctant to allow Gentiles to become Christians without first becoming Jews. He is exhorting the people over whom he has influence to accept Peter's decision.

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 Post subject: Re: Church Authority
PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 7:59 pm 
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Note, too, that it is Peter whose words bring to a close "much debate" (7) and that at the conclusion of his words all fall silent (12). Note the way he distinguishes his own role - "through my mouth" (7). And Peter's words are cited as an authority by James alongside Scripture.

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 Post subject: Re: Church Authority
PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 8:15 pm 
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I must agree. It was Peter who stated the definitive Doctrine, that Gentiles were saved by Grace as were the Jews. The decision of the Council was Pastoral in character.

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 Post subject: Re: Church Authority
PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:16 pm 
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RE "... it hath seemed good to the Holy Ghost and to us to lay no further burden upon you than these necessary things ..."

Thus, the believers were required to submit to a living authority that spoke for God.

Greg

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 Post subject: Re: Church Authority
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:42 am 
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Thanks to all of you. That is very helpful.

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 Post subject: Re: Church Authority
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 3:45 pm 
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RaginCajunJoe wrote:
metal1633 wrote:
Quote:
I had no idea Rodents could be so cute.


she is a DOG


A dog? Looks just like a Guinea Pig. Are you sure that it is not a Guinea pig?

CDL

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 Post subject: Re: Church Authority
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:21 pm 
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Athanasius wrote:
RaginCajunJoe wrote:
metal1633 wrote:
Quote:
I had no idea Rodents could be so cute.


she is a DOG


A dog? Looks just like a Guinea Pig. Are you sure that it is not a Guinea pig?

CDL


im positive that she is a DOG

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