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 Post subject: Explaining the true meaning of Baptism to others....
PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:01 pm 
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Hello All,

Can anyone help me with explaining to a protestant friend how Baptism specifically saves us from "Original Sin" (dying and rising with Christ) and not so much future sins? I'm feeling I will need to point out where it says this in the Bible and the fact that some proof will need to be shown. Is this explained in the Bible anywhere? Hopefully, I don't have to get into the "once saved, always saved" discussion! :pray:

Thanks,

Jim

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 Post subject: Re: Explaining the true meaning of Baptism to others....
PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:29 pm 
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Acts 2:38-39; Acts 16:15, 16:33, 18:8; 1 Cor 1:16 Jn 3:5; Rom 6:4, Col 2:11-12, Gen 17:12

Try these and see if they fit.

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 Post subject: Re: Explaining the true meaning of Baptism to others....
PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 7:30 pm 
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:?

Those verses are great for the proof that Baptism IS REQUIRED, but not that it removes ONLY original sin of Adam (and if you're an adult, any sins commited prior). These are again great for the necessity of the need to be Baptised.

Thanks,

Jim

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 Post subject: Re: Explaining the true meaning of Baptism to others....
PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:28 pm 
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Remember the Nicene Creed says: "One baptism for the forgiveness of sins."

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 Post subject: Re: Explaining the true meaning of Baptism to others....
PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:28 am 
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Jim:

What verses is the other person supplying saying that baptism is for the forgiveness of past, present, and all future sins?

I'm curious what he/she might be using for support as I can't think of any.


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 Post subject: Re: Explaining the true meaning of Baptism to others....
PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 12:11 pm 
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1 Pt. 3:21 "Baptism, which corresponds to this [Noah's flood], now saves you..."

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 Post subject: Re: Explaining the true meaning of Baptism to others....
PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:00 pm 
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cardshockey wrote:
Jim:

What verses is the other person supplying saying that baptism is for the forgiveness of past, present, and all future sins?

I'm curious what he/she might be using for support as I can't think of any.


Actually I'm just asking for two reasons:
1.) I feel it's going to come up due to a few things she's said. "Christ keeps forgiving our sins, again and again and again (w/o confession of course).
2.) If it doesn't come up, I can have reasons in my file ready to go!

Jim

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 Post subject: Re: Explaining the true meaning of Baptism to others....
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:14 am 
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Jim wrote:
Actually I'm just asking for two reasons:
1.) I feel it's going to come up due to a few things she's said. "Christ keeps forgiving our sins, again and again and again (w/o confession of course).
2.) If it doesn't come up, I can have reasons in my file ready to go!

Jim


I personally think you are making unnecessary work for yourself. If/when she tries to prove baptism is for the forgiveness of ALL (past, present, and future) sins, make her show you that in the Bible. Don't let her make assertions she can't back up at all, even with a faulty interpretation. Also, don't just let her dismiss confession. Hammer home John 20:19-23 and James 5:13-15. Don't let her off too easy! :nono:

Basically, there's no point trying to come up with a defense for an argument in which she has no offense - if that makes sense.


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 Post subject: Re: Explaining the true meaning of Baptism to others....
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:36 am 
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Jim wrote:
Hopefully, I don't have to get into the "once saved, always saved" discussion! :pray:

Thanks,

Jim


Thinking more about your situation, I think your whole discussion hinges on the OSAS and faith alone discussions. If she is talking about Christ continually forgives us, and sees us as sinless, then I don't think this conversation is really about baptism. I don't personally know of a faith that believes baptism is regenerative, and is for future sins. Many evangelicals believe simply faith in Jesus forgives future sins, but not usually the act of baptism.

Just me rambling trying to figure out your situation better...


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 Post subject: Re: Explaining the true meaning of Baptism to others....
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:17 am 
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cardshockey wrote:

Also, don't just let her dismiss confession. Hammer home John 20:19-23 and James 5:13-15. Don't let her off too easy! :nono:


I agree.

Take her back to James:13-15

[16] Therefore confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects.

1John.1
[9] If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

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 Post subject: Re: Explaining the true meaning of Baptism to others....
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:25 am 
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barjonah1 wrote:
1John.1
[9] If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


With this verse I point out the big IF at the beginning. So God forgives us, if we confess our sins, right? So what does the negation imply? What happens if we do not confess our sins?

Again, point out to the person John was writing to people who were already Christians or "believers", they were already "eternally saved." So in this lady's mind, weren't they already forgiven? Why the need to confess anything?


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 Post subject: Re: Explaining the true meaning of Baptism to others....
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:33 am 
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cardshockey wrote:
barjonah1 wrote:
1John.1
[9] If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


With this verse I point out the big IF at the beginning. So God forgives us, if we confess our sins, right? So what does the negation imply? What happens if we do not confess our sins?

Again, point out to the person John was writing to people who were already Christians or "believers", they were already "eternally saved." So in this lady's mind, weren't they already forgiven? Why the need to confess anything?


Good point. Also, in Acts 9, after Paul is healed of his blindness, he is immediately baptized. When the other Apostles hear of him coming their way, they are still afraid of him. But to assuage their fear, they are not told, "But he made a public display of his faith by being baptized." So, to use the Protestant style of apologetics, if Baptism was a public profession of faith, why was it not brought up to the other Apostles as proof of Paul's conversion?

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 Post subject: Re: Explaining the true meaning of Baptism to others....
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:42 pm 
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cardshockey wrote:
Jim wrote:
Actually I'm just asking for two reasons:
1.) I feel it's going to come up due to a few things she's said. "Christ keeps forgiving our sins, again and again and again (w/o confession of course).
2.) If it doesn't come up, I can have reasons in my file ready to go!

Jim


I personally think you are making unnecessary work for yourself. If/when she tries to prove baptism is for the forgiveness of ALL (past, present, and future) sins, make her show you that in the Bible. Don't let her make assertions she can't back up at all, even with a faulty interpretation. Also, don't just let her dismiss confession. Hammer home John 20:19-23 and James 5:13-15. Don't let her off too easy! :nono:

Basically, there's no point trying to come up with a defense for an argument in which she has no offense - if that makes sense.


Well, I think MY thought process is that she believes the "once saved always saved" thing. Then I will explain that Baptism is the "initiation to salvation". Then she may say, where does it say that in the Bible. I'm trying to take ye offense here I guess. I understand, and I believe because the Church says it's so. But I need more than that to attempt a convince, and a possible seed planting!!

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