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 Post subject: Why no kneeling?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 7:27 pm 
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Protestants believe that He is present when they invoke/call on him.

Why is there no act of worship in their rituals?

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 Post subject: Re: Why no kneeling?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 7:44 pm 
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Charles07 wrote:
Protestants believe that He is present when they invoke/call on him.

Why is there no act of worship in their rituals?


I do not think they believe He is really, truly, and substantially present.

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Judas Iscariot is the patron saint of Social Justice. Venerable Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen

A logistics problem should be handled with a logistical solution, not a liturgical one.


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 Post subject: Re: Why no kneeling?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 7:49 pm 
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There were times I remember (while growing up AoG) that after the service some people would remain in their pews (or go up to the 'altar') and kneel/pray...sometimes alone or sometimes with another member.

But there wasn't any set pattern as to when this would happen. IIRC it was connected to 'altar calls'.


SV

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 Post subject: Re: Why no kneeling?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 7:54 pm 
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pax wrote:
Charles07 wrote:
Protestants believe that He is present when they invoke/call on him.

Why is there no act of worship in their rituals?


I do not think they believe He is really, truly, and substantially present.


Or they do not respect Him.

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We are moving toward a dictatorship of relativism which does not recognize anything as definitive and has as its highest value one's own ego and one's own desires. - Pope Benedict XVI.

Appeals to personal subjectivity on a matter of objective right is as much a category mistake as claiming that the number 3 is taller than the color blue. - Dr. Francis Beckwith

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 Post subject: Re: Why no kneeling?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 9:26 pm 
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Why no standing at the reading of the Gospels?

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 Post subject: Re: Why no kneeling?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 10:08 pm 
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Signum Crucis wrote:
Why no standing at the reading of the Gospels?


Yes! And do explain the significance of the 3 crosses we trace over ourselves.

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We are obliged to believe and confess with simplicity that outside the Church there is neither salvation nor the remission of sins. [Pope Boniface VIII]

Judas Iscariot is the patron saint of Social Justice. Venerable Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen

A logistics problem should be handled with a logistical solution, not a liturgical one.


Holy Mary, Queen of the Martyrs, Pray for us.



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 Post subject: Re: Why no kneeling?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 10:18 pm 
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I assume they don't respect the Gospels enough to want to receive them with a clean heart, mind, and lips.

Why don't their preachers kiss the Gospels?

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 Post subject: Re: Why no kneeling?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 10:18 pm 
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Why the prohibition of ritualized action generally? Would God in His glory and majesty be someone we could stand before anyway? Then why treat Him differently now?

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 Post subject: Re: Why no kneeling?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 4:35 am 
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Mr.Rudeness wrote:
Why the prohibition of ritualized action generally? Would God in His glory and majesty be someone we could stand before anyway? Then why treat Him differently now?



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 Post subject: Re: Why no kneeling?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 5:07 am 
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Signum Crucis wrote:
I assume they don't respect the Gospels enough to want to receive them with a clean heart, mind, and lips.

Why don't their preachers kiss the Gospels?
What is the Gospel? Is it a book or a message?

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 Post subject: Re: Why no kneeling?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 5:29 am 
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ajw333 wrote:
Signum Crucis wrote:
I assume they don't respect the Gospels enough to want to receive them with a clean heart, mind, and lips.

Why don't their preachers kiss the Gospels?
What is the Gospel? Is it a book or a message?



Ask Prooftexter. He seems to think it is a book that contains understanding.

But it is a book and a message. To kiss the Bible is to venerate it the same way one may kiss a picture of their spouse/pet/mother.

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 Post subject: Re: Why no kneeling?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 6:05 am 
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I think that the heresy of OSAS has led protestants away from the fear of God. After all why should they fear God He is required by them to forgive their sins.

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 Post subject: Re: Why no kneeling?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 6:16 am 
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Humbleman4 wrote:
ajw333 wrote:
Signum Crucis wrote:
I assume they don't respect the Gospels enough to want to receive them with a clean heart, mind, and lips.

Why don't their preachers kiss the Gospels?
What is the Gospel? Is it a book or a message?



Ask Prooftexter. He seems to think it is a book that contains understanding.

But it is a book and a message. To kiss the Bible is to venerate it the same way one may kiss a picture of their spouse/pet/mother.
I'm not sure that the Lord would require us to kiss the Bible. My wife doesn't expect me to kiss pictures of her, or of the kids or the dog but each to their own.

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 Post subject: Re: Why no kneeling?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 7:05 am 
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ajw333 wrote:
Humbleman4 wrote:
ajw333 wrote:
Signum Crucis wrote:
I assume they don't respect the Gospels enough to want to receive them with a clean heart, mind, and lips.

Why don't their preachers kiss the Gospels?
What is the Gospel? Is it a book or a message?



Ask Prooftexter. He seems to think it is a book that contains understanding.

But it is a book and a message. To kiss the Bible is to venerate it the same way one may kiss a picture of their spouse/pet/mother.
I'm not sure that the Lord would require us to kiss the Bible. My wife doesn't expect me to kiss pictures of her, or of the kids or the dog but each to their own.

Is your wife God?

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 Post subject: Re: Why no kneeling?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 7:13 am 
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DesertSailor wrote:
ajw333 wrote:
Humbleman4 wrote:
ajw333 wrote:
Signum Crucis wrote:
I assume they don't respect the Gospels enough to want to receive them with a clean heart, mind, and lips.

Why don't their preachers kiss the Gospels?
What is the Gospel? Is it a book or a message?



Ask Prooftexter. He seems to think it is a book that contains understanding.

But it is a book and a message. To kiss the Bible is to venerate it the same way one may kiss a picture of their spouse/pet/mother.
I'm not sure that the Lord would require us to kiss the Bible. My wife doesn't expect me to kiss pictures of her, or of the kids or the dog but each to their own.

Is your wife God?
If my wife was with me in the room and I went and kissed a photo of her, she would regard this as odd. In the same way, God is always with us so why kiss the Bible, a statue or a picture of Him? He is right there standing in front of you.

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 Post subject: Re: Why no kneeling?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 7:39 am 
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Why did a woman kiss the hem of Jesus's garment? He was standing right there before her, after all.

The readings of the Mass is one of our Traditions. Since the first century, passages from the Bible have been read at Mass, including the Old Testament, an Epistle, and the Gospels. Origen said that the Gospel is the crown of all the holy writings. Our Gospels are in a separate book and the book is kissed by the priest as a sign of reverence for the holy words of Our Lord. The faithful make a cross on their forehead, one on their lips, and one over their heart before hearing the reading of the Gospel. There are other signs of reverence as well, but I won't go into those.

I'm continually amazed at non-Catholics who criticize Catholics and say we don't know the Scriptures, that the Bible is never used during Mass, etc., yet we show in the Mass a million times the reverence for the Holy Scriptures that they show in their services.

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 Post subject: Re: Why no kneeling?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 7:59 am 
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I'm confused as to why some of our Protestant friends insist on using the language of "requirement" at all times. As M Word once said - do/should we only do things that God requires of us?

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 Post subject: Re: Why no kneeling?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 10:05 am 
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Don't tell AJW that we wipe our feet on a rainy day before entering the Church. He would find that an odd requirement of the Vatican and would see it as a Papal plot to take over America. Feet wiping isn't in the bible.

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 Post subject: Re: Why no kneeling?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 1:04 pm 
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ajw333 wrote:
DesertSailor wrote:
ajw333 wrote:
Humbleman4 wrote:
ajw333 wrote:
Signum Crucis wrote:
I assume they don't respect the Gospels enough to want to receive them with a clean heart, mind, and lips.

Why don't their preachers kiss the Gospels?
What is the Gospel? Is it a book or a message?



Ask Prooftexter. He seems to think it is a book that contains understanding.

But it is a book and a message. To kiss the Bible is to venerate it the same way one may kiss a picture of their spouse/pet/mother.
I'm not sure that the Lord would require us to kiss the Bible. My wife doesn't expect me to kiss pictures of her, or of the kids or the dog but each to their own.

Is your wife God?
If my wife was with me in the room and I went and kissed a photo of her, she would regard this as odd. In the same way, God is always with us so why kiss the Bible, a statue or a picture of Him? He is right there standing in front of you.


Is that something of which you are constantly aware, or always conscious? Wouldn't that ritualized action serve to remind you that God is always present? Or are we to believe that what a man does has no effect on his attitude? It would seem that it is far more conducive to humility to approach Our Lord on one's knees than to stand about with our hands in our pockets, satisfied that because God is everywhere, we need show Him no particular physical sign of our homage.

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 Post subject: Re: Why no kneeling?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 1:33 pm 
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When I was a Protestant, I noticed that parents let their children run up and down the aisles and romp on the podium, and people would gather in groups to gossip, laugh loudly, and chatter like magpies. The absence of such rowdy behavior was striking when I went to my first Mass. I was also struck by the way people came in quietly and knelt in prayer.

Protestants don't bow their heads reverently when they hear the name of Our Lord. They don't make the sign of the cross when they hear the Holy Trinity invoked. They don't do anything. They say stuff like, "Oh, I worship Him in my heart. I don't have to do anything." Well, what you do outwardly is a sign of how you think and feel inwardly. If you feel reverent and you think it is fitting to show reverence, then it will be reflected in your actions, sometimes even unconsciously.

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