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 Post subject: The Father and the Son are the Parents of the Holy Spirit
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:26 pm 
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The Father and the Son are Parents of the Holy Spirit,if many churches are correct. If many churches are correct, The Trinity is a Family-- two Parents and a Progeny, just like a human family. (Humans are made in the "image" and "likeness" of God according to Genesis 1:26) In the Book of Job which is part of the bible,God is compared to a father and also a mother with a womb. "From whose womb comes the ice? Who gives birth to the frost from the heavens"--Job 38:29. Because God can also be thought of like a mother (Isaiah 42:14,Isaiah 66:13,Matthew 23:37, Psalm 131:2, Catechism of the Catholic Church 2nd edition paragraph 239), all three roles (father,mother,progeny) in a basic human family are filled in the Trinity. Saying that the "Father and the Son are the Parents of the Holy Spirit" is simply another way of saying that the Holy Spirit "proceeds from the Father and the Son" which has been official Catholic Church teaching for centuries. According to the Catholic Church, the Son is begotten from the Father. If this is correct, the Father is the father(Parent) of the Son. According to the Church, the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son.If this is correct, the Father and the Son are the Parents of the Holy Spirit. According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church (second edition)paragraph 246, the Holy Spirit's "nature and subsistence" is "at once(simul) from the Father and the Son." If the Church recognizes Mary as mother(parent) of God even if Mary isn't the first source of Christ's humanity(God is the first source of everything),then the Son can also be rightly called a Parent of God(the Holy Spirit).The scriptures are vague if the Holy Spirit is the 3rd or 2nd Person of the Trinity--whichever of these is true, the First Person and the Second Person may be the Parents of the Third.
Parent- definition from Merriam-Webster dictionary: one that begets or brings forth offspring. Why do priests very rarely, if ever, talk about the Parenthood of the Son?


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 Post subject: Re: The Father and the Son are the Parents of the Holy Spiri
PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:28 am 
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I answer that, The procession of love in God ought not to be called generation. In evidence whereof we must consider that the intellect and the will differ in this respect, that the intellect is made actual by the object understood residing according to its own likeness in the intellect; whereas the will is made actual, not by any similitude of the object willed within it, but by its having a certain inclination to the thing willed. Thus the procession of the intellect is by way of similitude, and is called generation, because every generator begets its own like; whereas the procession of the will is not by way of similitude, but rather by way of impulse and movement towards an object.

So what proceeds in God by way of love, does not proceed as begotten, or as son, but proceeds rather as spirit; which name expresses a certain vital movement and impulse, accordingly as anyone is described as moved or impelled by love to perform an action.

http://www.newadvent.org/summa/1027.htm


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 Post subject: Re: The Father and the Son are the Parents of the Holy Spiri
PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:19 pm 
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The Trinity is not two parents. There is one Parent: The Father. There is one Child: The Son.

"The Spirit proceeds eternally from the Father and from the Son, not as from two principles but from a single principle, not by two spirations but by a single aspiration." Your version has two principles.


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 Post subject: Re: The Father and the Son are the Parents of the Holy Spiri
PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:34 pm 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
The Trinity is not two parents. There is one Parent: The Father. There is one Child: The Son.

"The Spirit proceeds eternally from the Father and from the Son, not as from two principles but from a single principle, not by two spirations but by a single aspiration." Your version has two principles.


I looked up the meaning of principle: Principle means Base/Foundation/Root Cause/First Origin.
There is only one Principle, but two Parents.
As an analogy, a building has only one foundation. The foundation supports the first storey. The first storey supports the second storey. There is only one foundation, but two supports-- The foundation itself and the first storey (which supports the second storey)
As another analogy, death certificates have an immediate cause of death(for example respiratory failure), and an underlying cause of death(for example coronavirus). Two causes but only one underlying(root) cause.


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 Post subject: Re: The Father and the Son are the Parents of the Holy Spiri
PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:14 pm 
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May I suggest that you do some more research into the doctrine of the Trinity? Looking things up in a dictionary doesn't help with theology much.


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 Post subject: Re: The Father and the Son are the Parents of the Holy Spiri
PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 10:46 am 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
May I suggest that you do some more research into the doctrine of the Trinity? Looking things up in a dictionary doesn't help with theology much.


I did do a lot of research. And plan to continue to do more. In my experience, knowing the meanings of words (by looking it up in the dictionary) has been very helpful.


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 Post subject: Re: The Father and the Son are the Parents of the Holy Spiri
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 8:13 pm 
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jsarroforum wrote:
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
May I suggest that you do some more research into the doctrine of the Trinity? Looking things up in a dictionary doesn't help with theology much.


I did do a lot of research. And plan to continue to do more. In my experience, knowing the meanings of words (by looking it up in the dictionary) has been very helpful.
Sorry if I come off as a bit rude but reading your posts here I have to say that it has not been helpful. If you want to read theology, read theology.


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 Post subject: Re: The Father and the Son are the Parents of the Holy Spiri
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 8:43 pm 
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The problem with looking words up in the dictionary is that you might not get the right definition, especially when it comes to specialized usage.


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 Post subject: Re: The Father and the Son are the Parents of the Holy Spiri
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:11 am 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
The problem with looking words up in the dictionary is that you might not get the right definition, especially when it comes to specialized usage.


one good example of that might be the difference between the terms re-presentation and representation.

but i'm not wanting to digress the subject, so.... carry on,,,


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 Post subject: Re: The Father and the Son are the Parents of the Holy Spiri
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:19 am 
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jsarroforum wrote:
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
May I suggest that you do some more research into the doctrine of the Trinity? Looking things up in a dictionary doesn't help with theology much.


I did do a lot of research. And plan to continue to do more. In my experience, knowing the meanings of words (by looking it up in the dictionary) has been very helpful.


who exactly have you been reading? (just to give context as to what's forming your thoughts on this)..


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