Login Register

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic Page 1 of 2   [ 39 posts ]   Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: John Calvin and the Protestant Revolution
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 6:10 am 
Offline
Adept
Adept
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2003 10:23 pm
Posts: 4557
Location: Mosquito Swamps, USA
Religion: Roman Catholic
Church Affiliations: Cursillo & KofC
I am getting ready to do a study of the “Reformation” and was curious as to the best books, in and out of print (if you know of a book, and have an author or title I can find it). I also would like a good focus on Calvin, as I have read and seen it insinuated that he may have been a crypto-Jew. I am not looking for anything that is trying to be PC. I am looking for orthodox Catholic authors as well. Thank you in advance.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: John Calvin and the Protestant Revolution
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 6:37 am 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 12:30 am
Posts: 8815
Location: The carrefour of ignorance is bliss & knowledge is power.
Religion: The One with All the Marks.
Start with Institutes of the Christian Religion.

Whatever you read "about" John Calvin, look at what he actually said. There is a lot of it. He was a prolific writer.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: John Calvin and the Protestant Revolution
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:13 pm 
Offline
King of Cool
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 11, 2003 1:30 pm
Posts: 76309
Religion: Anticukite Catholic
A crypto-Jew? That's an extremely bizarre accusation. Where did you read that?

It is not at all clear to me what you are asking for. Do you want a book about the Reformation? I recommend the one by Diarmid McCullough. Do you want a book on Reformed theology? I can recommend several sources. Do you want a biography of John Calvin? I am aware of a few.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: John Calvin and the Protestant Revolution
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:48 pm 
Offline
Jedi Master
Jedi Master
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 9:55 am
Posts: 82638
Location: 1.5532386636 radians
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: 4th Degree KofC
Search for John Calvin Jew. The results are ... fascinating.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: John Calvin and the Protestant Revolution
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:53 pm 
Offline
Some Poor Bibliophile
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 10:22 pm
Posts: 19632
Doom wrote:
A crypto-Jew? That's an extremely bizarre accusation. Where did you read that?

It is not at all clear to me what you are asking for. Do you want a book about the Reformation? I recommend the one by Diarmid McCullough. Do you want a book on Reformed theology? I can recommend several sources. Do you want a biography of John Calvin? I am aware of a few.


I think I wrote part of this.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: John Calvin and the Protestant Revolution
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:58 pm 
Offline
Some Poor Bibliophile
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 10:22 pm
Posts: 19632
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Search for John Calvin Jew. The results are ... fascinating.



I think I meant to write this.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: John Calvin and the Protestant Revolution
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:01 pm 
Offline
Adept
Adept
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2003 10:23 pm
Posts: 4557
Location: Mosquito Swamps, USA
Religion: Roman Catholic
Church Affiliations: Cursillo & KofC
I understand somewhat well the Reformed theology. I am looking more for good historical sources to be better acquainted of the history and the characters of and around the revolution.

As for the crypto-Jew aspect, I know not where I first heard this as it was nearly 20 years ago. He did come from ethnically Jewish roots, crypto-Jews were normal and very anti-Catholic. Calvin was very kindly toward the Jews in practice and theology. Jewish printers made fly off their presses the writings of Luther to propagate division an spread hatred toward the Church.

There is precedent and motive, but I find very circumstantial evidence only.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: John Calvin and the Protestant Revolution
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 6:07 pm 
Offline
King of Cool
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 11, 2003 1:30 pm
Posts: 76309
Religion: Anticukite Catholic
It still isn't clear to me what it is you want. if you want a general book on the history of the Reformation I am not aware of any book that is more comprehensive than the one by Diarmid McCullough.

So what is this Crypto-Jew stuff?

Are you saying that despite the fact that he wrote literally hundreds of thousands of pages and tens of millions of words about Christianity that he was only pretending to be a Christian and that the entire time he was secretly practicing Orthodox Judaism? If so that is the most insane thing I've ever heard. Sorry.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: John Calvin and the Protestant Revolution
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 6:15 pm 
Offline
Adept
Adept
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2003 10:23 pm
Posts: 4557
Location: Mosquito Swamps, USA
Religion: Roman Catholic
Church Affiliations: Cursillo & KofC
I want good accounts of the reformation from a Catholic view so as to better understand those most involved. I also was wanting to learn if there is any way of validating Calvin = crypto Jew. I now have a very good understanding of the goings-on in other parts of Europe around that time, and the Calvin accusation would fit with other things of the tine, but correlation does not equalk causation.

I have read a few books by St Thomas More, and a bit by Erasmus, but nothing else out of England, and I’ve read nothing out of Germany.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: John Calvin and the Protestant Revolution
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:33 pm 
Offline
King of Cool
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 11, 2003 1:30 pm
Posts: 76309
Religion: Anticukite Catholic
I'm going to be quite direct about this: Does the idea that the greatest Protestant theologian ever, and one of the greatest Christian intellects of all time, was only pretending to be Christian really sound plausible to you?

That's a conspiracy theory on the level of the people in the Middle Ages who accused Jews of poisoning wells, it's on the level of the people who think Dick Cheney was secretly controlling the airplanes on 9-11 by remote control from the White House basement. What I', saying is that it is so completely irrational that no one should be asking for evidence against it. Its falsehood should be transparent.

And no, Diarmid McCullough is not Catholic or even Christian, but I defy you to find a one-volume history of the Reformation that is more comprehensive than his. It starts in the 12th century and continues the story into the 19th.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: John Calvin and the Protestant Revolution
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:29 pm 
Offline
Some Poor Bibliophile
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 10:22 pm
Posts: 19632
Doom wrote:
I'm going to be quite direct about this: Does the idea that the greatest Protestant theologian ever, and one of the greatest Christian intellects of all time, was only pretending to be Christian really sound plausible to you?

That's a conspiracy theory on the level of the people in the Middle Ages who accused Jews of poisoning wells, it's on the level of the people who think Dick Cheney was secretly controlling the airplanes on 9-11 by remote control from the White House basement. What I', saying is that it is so completely irrational that no one should be asking for evidence against it. Its falsehood should be transparent.

And no, Diarmid McCullough is not Catholic or even Christian, but I defy you to find a one-volume history of the Reformation that is more comprehensive than his. It starts in the 12th century and continues the story into the 19th.



It is, in fact, a conspiracy theory along these lines:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/j_m_s_m_j/6762174055

https://watch-unto-prayer.org/reformation-2.html#calvin


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: John Calvin and the Protestant Revolution
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2020 12:58 am 
Offline
King of Cool
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 11, 2003 1:30 pm
Posts: 76309
Religion: Anticukite Catholic
GKC wrote:
Doom wrote:
I'm going to be quite direct about this: Does the idea that the greatest Protestant theologian ever, and one of the greatest Christian intellects of all time, was only pretending to be Christian really sound plausible to you?

That's a conspiracy theory on the level of the people in the Middle Ages who accused Jews of poisoning wells, it's on the level of the people who think Dick Cheney was secretly controlling the airplanes on 9-11 by remote control from the White House basement. What I', saying is that it is so completely irrational that no one should be asking for evidence against it. Its falsehood should be transparent.

And no, Diarmid McCullough is not Catholic or even Christian, but I defy you to find a one-volume history of the Reformation that is more comprehensive than his. It starts in the 12th century and continues the story into the 19th.



It is, in fact, a conspiracy theory along these lines:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/j_m_s_m_j/6762174055

https://watch-unto-prayer.org/reformation-2.html#calvin



I only read one sentence and my head practically exploded with the idiocy of it. No, John Calvin was not Jewish, his name is not a Latinization of "Cohen", that is just complete nonsense. Historians of the Reformation have traced Calvin's genealogy back several generations there's not a hint of Jewish blood. And the family name was always Calvin far back as we can go.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: John Calvin and the Protestant Revolution
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2020 8:37 am 
Offline
Some Poor Bibliophile
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 10:22 pm
Posts: 19632
Doom wrote:
GKC wrote:
Doom wrote:
I'm going to be quite direct about this: Does the idea that the greatest Protestant theologian ever, and one of the greatest Christian intellects of all time, was only pretending to be Christian really sound plausible to you?

That's a conspiracy theory on the level of the people in the Middle Ages who accused Jews of poisoning wells, it's on the level of the people who think Dick Cheney was secretly controlling the airplanes on 9-11 by remote control from the White House basement. What I', saying is that it is so completely irrational that no one should be asking for evidence against it. Its falsehood should be transparent.

And no, Diarmid McCullough is not Catholic or even Christian, but I defy you to find a one-volume history of the Reformation that is more comprehensive than his. It starts in the 12th century and continues the story into the 19th.



It is, in fact, a conspiracy theory along these lines:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/j_m_s_m_j/6762174055

https://watch-unto-prayer.org/reformation-2.html#calvin



I only read one sentence and my head practically exploded with the idiocy of it. No, John Calvin was not Jewish, his name is not a Latinization of "Cohen", that is just complete nonsense. Historians of the Reformation have traced Calvin's genealogy back several generations there's not a hint of Jewish blood. And the family name was always Calvin far back as we can go.


And he was never on Jekyll Island.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: John Calvin and the Protestant Revolution
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2020 10:18 am 
Offline
Jedi Master
Jedi Master
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 9:55 am
Posts: 82638
Location: 1.5532386636 radians
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: 4th Degree KofC
That's what They want you to think.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: John Calvin and the Protestant Revolution
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2020 1:28 pm 
Offline
King of Cool
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 11, 2003 1:30 pm
Posts: 76309
Religion: Anticukite Catholic
GKC wrote:
Doom wrote:
GKC wrote:
Doom wrote:
I'm going to be quite direct about this: Does the idea that the greatest Protestant theologian ever, and one of the greatest Christian intellects of all time, was only pretending to be Christian really sound plausible to you?

That's a conspiracy theory on the level of the people in the Middle Ages who accused Jews of poisoning wells, it's on the level of the people who think Dick Cheney was secretly controlling the airplanes on 9-11 by remote control from the White House basement. What I', saying is that it is so completely irrational that no one should be asking for evidence against it. Its falsehood should be transparent.

And no, Diarmid McCullough is not Catholic or even Christian, but I defy you to find a one-volume history of the Reformation that is more comprehensive than his. It starts in the 12th century and continues the story into the 19th.



It is, in fact, a conspiracy theory along these lines:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/j_m_s_m_j/6762174055

https://watch-unto-prayer.org/reformation-2.html#calvin



I only read one sentence and my head practically exploded with the idiocy of it. No, John Calvin was not Jewish, his name is not a Latinization of "Cohen", that is just complete nonsense. Historians of the Reformation have traced Calvin's genealogy back several generations there's not a hint of Jewish blood. And the family name was always Calvin far back as we can go.


And he was never on Jekyll Island.


But he was on the Island of Doctor Moreau.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: John Calvin and the Protestant Revolution
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2020 6:13 pm 
Offline
Some Poor Bibliophile
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 10:22 pm
Posts: 19632
Doom wrote:
GKC wrote:
Doom wrote:
GKC wrote:
Doom wrote:
I'm going to be quite direct about this: Does the idea that the greatest Protestant theologian ever, and one of the greatest Christian intellects of all time, was only pretending to be Christian really sound plausible to you?

That's a conspiracy theory on the level of the people in the Middle Ages who accused Jews of poisoning wells, it's on the level of the people who think Dick Cheney was secretly controlling the airplanes on 9-11 by remote control from the White House basement. What I', saying is that it is so completely irrational that no one should be asking for evidence against it. Its falsehood should be transparent.

And no, Diarmid McCullough is not Catholic or even Christian, but I defy you to find a one-volume history of the Reformation that is more comprehensive than his. It starts in the 12th century and continues the story into the 19th.



It is, in fact, a conspiracy theory along these lines:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/j_m_s_m_j/6762174055

https://watch-unto-prayer.org/reformation-2.html#calvin



I only read one sentence and my head practically exploded with the idiocy of it. No, John Calvin was not Jewish, his name is not a Latinization of "Cohen", that is just complete nonsense. Historians of the Reformation have traced Calvin's genealogy back several generations there's not a hint of Jewish blood. And the family name was always Calvin far back as we can go.


And he was never on Jekyll Island.


But he was on the Island of Doctor Moreau.


Went there to hide.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: John Calvin and the Protestant Revolution
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:11 am 
Offline
Adept
Adept
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2003 10:23 pm
Posts: 4557
Location: Mosquito Swamps, USA
Religion: Roman Catholic
Church Affiliations: Cursillo & KofC
Gracias por la condescendencia. Pero, estaba mucho mas feliz con unos libros sobre la revolución protestante.

So, actual good books from a Catholic perspective covering this topic, both in and out of print would be great to know about. I know that the Crypto Jew Calvin might be completely BS, but I do not know it is BS. Knowing that it was Jewish printers that propagated so much of Luther’s writings in the 16th and 17th centuries makes the obscure rumor not near as ridiculous as you all make it out to be. But thank you for informing me of my idiocy. Now, can you help me with the other part of my supplication, or do I only merit derision?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: John Calvin and the Protestant Revolution
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2020 9:03 am 
Offline
Some Poor Bibliophile
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 10:22 pm
Posts: 19632
Servant of Guadalupe wrote:
Gracias por la condescendencia. Pero, estaba mucho mas feliz con unos libros sobre la revolución protestante.

So, actual good books from a Catholic perspective covering this topic, both in and out of print would be great to know about. I know that the Crypto Jew Calvin might be completely BS, but I do not know ito is BS. Knowing that it was Jewish printers that propagated so much of Luther’s writings in the 16th and 17th centuries makes the obscure rumor not near as ridiculous as you all make it out to be. But thank you for informing me of my idiocy. Now, can you help me with the other part of my supplication, or do I only merit derision?



If you ever discover such a source, I would certainly like to know of it.

Consider Belloc's treatments, passim, of Calvin. If you find anything, let me know.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: John Calvin and the Protestant Revolution
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2020 2:05 pm 
Offline
Adept
Adept
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2003 10:23 pm
Posts: 4557
Location: Mosquito Swamps, USA
Religion: Roman Catholic
Church Affiliations: Cursillo & KofC
Roger that.

When I first heard the idea considering Calvin, I was barely 20 years of age, and less understanding of sources. So, as for my source back then, it mat or mat mot have held water. I haven’t an inkling of recollection of what my source was. That was before I ever got on the internet, as it was 20 years ago.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: John Calvin and the Protestant Revolution
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2020 2:09 pm 
Offline
Adept
Adept
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2003 10:23 pm
Posts: 4557
Location: Mosquito Swamps, USA
Religion: Roman Catholic
Church Affiliations: Cursillo & KofC
Does “Passim” go by a different name?


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic Page 1 of 2   [ 39 posts ]   Go to page 1, 2  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


Jump to: