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 Post subject: Da Pacem Domine
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 11:23 pm 
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Master
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This is my favorite hymn, especially this version linked below.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M0d4qM7gCH8

My question is the refrain has the word "pugnet" is used in the line "Qui pugnet pro nobis" but I don't hear the word in the song. Am I missing it in he way I'm hearing the the hymn?

Also, what is the proper translation? These are the lyrics as written in the video caption...


Uploaded on Mar 4, 2011Chorus:
Da pacem, Domine, in diebus nostris
Quia non est alius
Qui pugnet pro nobis
Nisi tu Deus noster.

1. Fiat pax in virtute tua: et abundantia in turribus tuis.

Da pacem, Domine, in diebus nostris
Quia non est alius
Qui pugnet pro nobis
Nisi tu Deus noster.

2. Propter fratres meos et proximos meos loquebar pacem de te:

Da pacem, Domine, in diebus nostris
Quia non est alius
Qui pugnet pro nobis
Nisi tu Deus noster.

3. Propter domum Domini Dei nostri quaesivi bona tibi.

Da pacem, Domine, in diebus nostris
Quia non est alius
Qui pugnet pro nobis
Nisi tu Deus noster.

4. Rogate quae ad pacem sunt Jerusalem:et abundantia diligentibus te.

Da pacem, Domine, in diebus nostris
Quia non est alius
Qui pugnet pro nobis
Nisi tu Deus noster.

5. Gloria Patri et Filio et Spiritui Sancto, sicut erat in principio et nunc et semper, et in saecula saeculorum. Amen

There's a couple translations online, but I thought I'd ask the pros to know for sure.

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 Post subject: Re: Da Pacem Domine
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 12:06 am 
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Grant peace, Lord, in our days
For there is no other
Who will fight for us
But thou, our God

1. Let there be peace in thy virtue, and abundance in thy towers.

2. Because of my brethren and my neighbors I spoke peace of thee.

3. Because of the house of the Lord our God, I sought good things for thee.

4. Ask [plural] for those things which are for the peace of Jerusalem; and peace to those, who love thee.

5. Glory be etc.

Verses 1-4 are taken straight from Psalm 121, and verse 5 is just the Gloria Patri.

I don't hear pugnet in the recording you posted either, but that can still be interpreted with an implicit verb as something like "who is for us."


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 Post subject: Re: Da Pacem Domine
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 5:20 pm 
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Ah, pugnet means fight, or to fight. Like the word "pugilist." Without it the song has less of a spiritual warfare vibe, but the version I posted above sounds amazing either way. Would the version posted above be considered Gregorian chant or just a Latin hymn?

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 Post subject: Re: Da Pacem Domine
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 5:56 pm 
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It is not Gregorian--the warbling parts aren't part of that style.

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 Post subject: Re: Da Pacem Domine
PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:33 am 
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Nathan M. wrote:
Ah, pugnet means fight, or to fight. Like the word "pugilist." Without it the song has less of a spiritual warfare vibe, but the version I posted above sounds amazing either way. Would the version posted above be considered Gregorian chant or just a Latin hymn?

Pugnet "may he fight"

Singular, 3rd person (he). Present tense, subjunctive. Pelagius gets across the same sense using will- in the sense of willing, would, etc.

Pugno, pugnare, pugnavi, pugnatus esse is how it would be given in a dictionary. (I fight, to fight, I have fought, to have been fought). With those four forms you can give any other form.

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 Post subject: Re: Da Pacem Domine
PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:11 am 
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PED, where did you learn Latin?

Also, do you know of any free or cheap apps/ software/ programs that would be suitable for an extreme beginner that you would recommend?

I'm already scared of the verb conjugation :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: Da Pacem Domine
PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 2:27 pm 
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Nathan M. wrote:
PED, where did you learn Latin?

Also, do you know of any free or cheap apps/ software/ programs that would be suitable for an extreme beginner that you would recommend?

I'm already scared of the verb conjugation :shock:

I don't believe in memorizing all the conjugations, declensions, etc before diving in.

I recommend doing a very basic primer, on the most common words and forms. There are 1576 forms. You won't remember them without using them anyways, and in anycase learning charts can be an impediment to reading/using Latin... I see it with children subjected to bad programs, where they have to count through forms to get to the one they need.

With that in mind, if you want to get some vocabulary down first, rather than learning in context, that can be helpful for older learns. Memrise has a program with Diederich's list of most common words (covers 86% of what you might encounter in classical texts)

As far as really learning the language, I am a strong advocate of lingua latina. But perhaps as an easier into would be using some of the texys here

http://hiberna-cr.wikidot.com/reading-material

I recommend Cornelia, and Colloquia Latina. If you do them, then lingua Latina (not free... but the exercises are hosted on wyomingcatholic.net ), you would be fairly proficient. I did Wheelock, but only was able to actually read Latin after doing Lingua Latina

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