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 Post subject: Deus Lo Vult
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 5:31 pm 
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I have sometimes seen "lo" here meaning "it" in the phrase Deus vult.

I've studied Classical Latin at the university level and have never seen the word "lo" was it a medieval thing or just uncommon in the writings of Ovid and Virgil?

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 Post subject: Re: Deus Lo Vult
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 5:49 pm 
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It comes from the time when Latin was splitting into the Romance languages.

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 Post subject: Re: Deus Lo Vult
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 6:52 pm 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
It comes from the time when Latin was splitting into the Romance languages.


I heard though that Scholastic Latin, not just Vulgar deformed Medieval Latin, had articles, so I was wondering if there was a official recognition of some of the modernization of Latin.

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 Post subject: Re: Deus Lo Vult
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 8:25 pm 
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Scholastic Latin has articles? :scratch:

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 Post subject: Re: Deus Lo Vult
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 9:36 pm 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Scholastic Latin has articles? :scratch:


Rumors on the street say so.

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 Post subject: Re: Deus Lo Vult
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:32 pm 
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:scratch: :scratch: Someone has been smoking something. The demonstrative pronouns can be used in a way that approximates a definite article, and I suspect that's where the articles in Romance languages come from, but I have never heard that even Late Latin used articles. PED would know better than I, of course.

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 Post subject: Re: Deus Lo Vult
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 3:45 am 
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A corruption of Latin but it may be medieval Catalan. See the following:

http://ancienthistory.about.com/od/lati ... LoVult.htm

Modern Catalan would be: Déu lo vol.

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 Post subject: Re: Deus Lo Vult
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 5:48 am 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
:scratch: :scratch: Someone has been smoking something. The demonstrative pronouns can be used in a way that approximates a definite article, and I suspect that's where the articles in Romance languages come from, but I have never heard that even Late Latin used articles. PED would know better than I, of course.


Perhaps it was extremely rare, I've not read much scholastic Latin personally, and perhaps I misunderstood those rumours on the street.

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 Post subject: Re: Deus Lo Vult
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 9:37 am 
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Like Russian, Latin language does not have articles both definite (the) and indefinite (an/a). Modern Romance languages do, like French: Dieu le veut. Actually "le" or "lo" is a pronoun.

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 Post subject: Re: Deus Lo Vult
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 12:02 pm 
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Just what I was thinking. "Lo" in this context is a pronoun, not an article. It's still Late Latin, probably descended from "illud."

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 Post subject: Re: Deus Lo Vult
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 1:25 pm 
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There are definitely places in Latin where pronouns function as and are best translated as definite articles. Likewise, the number unus is often best translated as an indefinite article rather than one. It's a matter of context. I pulled up an article that gives some examples from the Pilgrimage of Egeria and the Vulgate.

http://www.hf.uio.no/ifikk/english/rese ... Lysebu.pdf


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 Post subject: Re: Deus Lo Vult
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 4:12 pm 
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In addition to using ille or hic/hoc as an article, one also sees "ly" Which is also frequently used the way we use " " or Italics

E.g., The word man has one syllable. Might be- "Man" has one syllable - or - Man has one syllable.

In Latin that might be - ly vir ly syllabam unum habet

St. Thomas SOMETIMES uses ly.

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 Post subject: Re: Deus Lo Vult
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 4:15 pm 
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This is good

http://www.orbilat.com/Languages/Latin_ ... rg/07.html

"However, above all, it is the simplicity of syntax and the monotony of style which characterize scholastic Latin. One adds new arguments with item, an amplius or a praeterea, repeated ad infinitum. Logic required of Latin expressions an impeccable precision, but not the variation consistent with the standards of rhetoric. The use of images to enliven style is forbidden: the austerity of thought demanded complete stylistic dryness. From Old French ly was borrowed to designate a citation in order to avoid any possibility of misunderstanding. St. Thomas, speaking of the Son in his treatise on the Trinity, states: Melius est quod dicatur "semper natus," ut ly "semper" designet permanentiam aeternitatis et ly "natus" perfectionem geniti. "

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