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 Post subject: Humanae Vitae 21
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 11:42 pm 
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Prodigal Son of Thunder
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"Recta autem et honesta nasciturae prolis ordinatio"

The current translation on the web site of the Holy See reads:

"The right and lawful ordering of birth"

Older translations (seen on EWTN, PapalEncyclicals.net) read:

"The honest practice of regulation of birth"

I am sure there is something not quite right about either translation. Is there a basis for translating "honesta" into "lawful"?

"The right, moreover, and honest (dignified? worthy?) ordering of the birth of offspring"?

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 Post subject: Re: Humanae Vitae 21
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 4:36 am 
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Dr. Janet Smith translated directly from Latin.

Here is her book titled "Humanae Vitae: A Challenge to Love"

http://onemoresoul.com/catalog/humanae- ... -p144.html

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 Post subject: Re: Humanae Vitae 21
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 9:25 am 
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That's not particularly helpful.

I was able to find Dr. Smith's translation of this passage from her book Humanae Vitae, a Generation Later. She translates it simply as:

"Moral family planning".

I'm not sure what her reasoning is for translating the passage this way.

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 Post subject: Re: Humanae Vitae 21
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:22 am 
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I am no Latinist, but putting the words in order more or less renders: The right and honest ordering of the birth of offspring.

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 Post subject: Re: Humanae Vitae 21
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 7:31 pm 
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Sons of Thunder
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Bagheera wrote:
"Recta autem et honesta nasciturae prolis ordinatio"

The current translation on the web site of the Holy See reads:

"The right and lawful ordering of birth"

Older translations (seen on EWTN, PapalEncyclicals.net) read:

"The honest practice of regulation of birth"

I am sure there is something not quite right about either translation. Is there a basis for translating "honesta" into "lawful"?

"The right, moreover, and honest (dignified? worthy?) ordering of the birth of offspring"?

The Latin honestum is a pain to render in English. The closest use of its English derivative is when we say something like "an honest good"

Honestum is contrasted to utile and delectabile. The utile bonum, mean the useful good, and the delectabile is the pleasing good. Honestum signifies what is good in itself. You may render it virtuous, as it is some desired for its own sake and perfective of itself and not (merely) as means to another. Respectable is another choice, but that can be misleading

I would render it if I was trying to be hyper literal "{Moreover} the right and honorable ordering of future offspring to be born"

Note how the gentive subject of ordinatio is not births, but the offspring (prolis) who will be born (nasciturae). Not, perhaps that relevant here.

Could honestum be rendered as lawful or licit? I suppose it could, but in doing so you lose much of the sense of the word. Something can be licit but not honestum (as what is lawful but not expedient)

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 Post subject: Re: Humanae Vitae 21
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 9:36 pm 
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Prodigal Son of Thunder
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My thought was that "lawful" gave the phrase a different sort of meaning.

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