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 Post subject: 2 pronunciation questions...
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 3:22 pm 
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Sons of Thunder
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1) Michaelum is pronounced "Mee-kay-loom" and not "Meek-eye-loom" right?

2) if there are 2 c's in a Latin word where the 2nd c would ordinarily be pronounced "ch" ... like the Latin word for accept I think qualifies but I can't remember the word offhand so I don't know for sure ... are the 2 c's pronounced as "kch" or "tch" or "ch" or something else?

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 Post subject: Re: 2 pronunciation questions...
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 3:57 pm 
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Jedi Padawan
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There are many different pronunciations of Latin. Do you wonder about Church-latin?

I might be influenced by German pronunciation but I would have said:

Mii scha elum

The problem when I write it like that is that it is mainly written based on my pronunciation of Norwegian. In any case I would have stressed the ae sound.


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 Post subject: Re: 2 pronunciation questions...
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 4:12 pm 
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Mee-KAY-loom

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 Post subject: Re: 2 pronunciation questions...
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:17 pm 
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I have sometimes seen a diaeresis over the e in Michaëlum, wouldn't that make it "mi-ka-EL-um"?

ecce = ET-chay.


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 Post subject: Re: 2 pronunciation questions...
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:39 pm 
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AE is Michaelum is NOT a dipthong. It is to be pronounced as Boso says (same with Israël, Gabriël, etc.) Somethings written Michahelum to make that clear (h is always, always, always silent except in mihi and nihil and compounds from those words when it is a K sound, as they used to be michi, nichil)

Mee-kah-eh-loom.

E is as in Red, NEVER as in r-ay. I as the ee in feet. u as in moon.

I gave the official pronunciation of the Church. There is no pronunciation that pronounces ch as sh though, so I don´t know where viking got that. CH is said as "kh" with some aspiration in the German pronunciation, but I prefer the official, Roman.

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 Post subject: Re: 2 pronunciation questions...
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:41 pm 
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Boso wrote:
I have sometimes seen a diaeresis over the e in Michaëlum, wouldn't that make it "mi-ka-EL-um"?

ecce = ET-chay.

Correct. cc between the same vowels is T-Ch, but I would warn about giving AY for an e. The two e's are the same, and as in red or met, with no hint of a second sound as in ray.

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 Post subject: Re: 2 pronunciation questions...
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:43 pm 
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Found it! EWTN put the official guide from the Liber up. I think it is missing some elements, but should be a good reference

http://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/eccl ... _latin.htm

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 Post subject: Re: 2 pronunciation questions...
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 7:02 pm 
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Pro Ecclesia Dei wrote:
The two e's are the same, and as in red or met, with no hint of a second sound as in ray.


Oh, I spelled it as I always hear it. Is the second e a long vowel?

In English, the "ay" sound is a diphthong and I think that's the sound the LU instructions warn so sternly against. But in (say) Spanish there are two "e" sounds (as in "Pepe"), neither of which is a diphthong...is it so wrong to use both of them in Latin?


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 Post subject: Re: 2 pronunciation questions...
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 7:28 pm 
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Sons of Thunder
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The accent falls on the first e (of course, it is never on the last syllable) and the first e is long, because before a double consonant. The difference,in ecclesiastical pronunciation, is one of length not quality (same is true in Greek), despite the efforts of the English to pronounce everything as an English word.

Other than the double consonant rule and the dipthongs always being long, it is hard to tell.

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 Post subject: Re: 2 pronunciation questions...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 10:07 am 
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Jedi Padawan
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The different "e" sounds might have developed in the later stages of Vulgar Latin, and they would then carry over into the other Romance languages. Ecclesiastical pronunciation, though, would have remained constant despite other developments in the popular, everyday Latin language and its descendants, the Romance languages.

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