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 Post subject: Seminaries teaching Latin
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:32 am 
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Sons of Thunder
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Are there any diocesan seminaries in the United States that require more than 2 years of Latin?

How many years do the religious orders under the Ecclesia Dei Commission (if that is still what it's called, I don't know) usually receive regarding Latin?


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 Post subject: Re: Seminaries teaching Latin
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 7:21 am 
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Dionysius wrote:
Are there any diocesan seminaries in the United States that require more than 2 years of Latin?

I don't know, but I would be surprised if there are.


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 Post subject: Re: Seminaries teaching Latin
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:27 am 
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Well probably a seminary dedicated to training for the Latin Mass would require more than 2 years of Latin, because I believe you'd need far greater fluency in Latin than the minimal 2 years to celebrate the Latin Mass. 2 years of Latin isn't a lot.


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 Post subject: Re: Seminaries teaching Latin
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:29 am 
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All it takes is fluency with pronunciation, which you can do in a semester.


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 Post subject: Re: Seminaries teaching Latin
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:40 am 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
All it takes is fluency with pronunciation, which you can do in a semester.

Right. One needn't "know" Latin to celebrate Mass in Latin, any more than one needs to know Spanish to celebrate Mass in Spanish. Giving a homily is another matter, but then you'll rarely, if ever, hear a homily in Latin.


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 Post subject: Re: Seminaries teaching Latin
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:45 am 
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Dionysius wrote:
How many years do the religious orders under the Ecclesia Dei Commission (if that is still what it's called, I don't know) usually receive regarding Latin?

It would be a good idea to write to them to find out.


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 Post subject: Re: Seminaries teaching Latin
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 10:22 am 
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Bagheera wrote:
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
All it takes is fluency with pronunciation, which you can do in a semester.

Right. One needn't "know" Latin to celebrate Mass in Latin, any more than one needs to know Spanish to celebrate Mass in Spanish.

Which is not to say that some knowledge of Latin doesn't help (e.g., the rubrics are more effective reminders of what to do if you know more or less what they're saying).


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 Post subject: Re: Seminaries teaching Latin
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 12:56 am 
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I am trying to understand this better.

Are there any similarities, however remote from each other, between praying in tongues privately (given that the person truly has the gift) and a priest saying Mass in Latin, not knowing what the words mean?

Is what we are saying is that knowledge of Latin is not necessary because all that is needed is a simple act of intention to unite his prayers sufferings and good works as a private individual to the public act that he performs?

Besides the knowledge of Latin for the sake of knowing the rubrics, does knowledge of Latin in any way help the priest to better participate in the Sacrifice of the Mass?


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 Post subject: Re: Seminaries teaching Latin
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 7:33 am 
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Quote:
Is what we are saying is that knowledge of Latin is not necessary because all that is needed is a simple act of intention to unite his prayers sufferings and good works as a private individual to the public act that he performs?
What is needed is an intention to celebrate Mass (or another sacrament) in the form prescribed by the Church.

It is easier to enter into the prayers if you understand them.


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 Post subject: Re: Seminaries teaching Latin
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:09 am 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
All it takes is fluency with pronunciation, which you can do in a semester.


There's a reason why the Council of Trent established seminaries, with a lot of attention on Latin. Priests who don't really know Latin but who can (kinda sorta) passably pronounce the words (without really knowing what they are) is a really, really, really bad and harmful thing.


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 Post subject: Re: Seminaries teaching Latin
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:22 am 
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Perhaps seminarians need to know how to pronounce in Italian.


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 Post subject: Re: Seminaries teaching Latin
PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:23 am 
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Doom wrote:
Priests who don't really know Latin but who can (kinda sorta) passably pronounce the words (without really knowing what they are) is a really, really, really bad and harmful thing.

Why do you think that?


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 Post subject: Re: Seminaries teaching Latin
PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:24 am 
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Dionysius wrote:
between praying in tongues privately

I don't think there is any such thing as praying in tongues privately.


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 Post subject: Re: Seminaries teaching Latin
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 9:37 pm 
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A few of our priests are trained in celebrating the Tridentine Mass. AFAIK, they are not fluent in Latin, but are fluent in the prayers for the mass. Our MC does not know Latin either, yet he has the prayers at the Foot of the Altar (for example) memorized.


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 Post subject: Re: Seminaries teaching Latin
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 5:06 pm 
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It is an easy enough task to learn enough Latin in just a few weeks to read most of the Summa (minus quotations from others). A few more weeks, and after a few times reading the Mass you would be familiar with the ordinary. Where you would easily be hung up is on the propers.

Think of it this way. I didn't need to know Spanish to learn the Hail Mary in Spanish and to understand what I was saying when I said it, because I knew the haily Mary already. The ordinary is a little more difficult, but it can be the same sort of thing. A little knowledge, + the familiarity from day in and day out and there isn't really any defect in understanding the text as you are praying it

Propers, on the other hand, are less likely to be texts that you are so familiar with that your familiarity makes up for gaps in your knowledge of Latin. Still, as long as you can pronounce the Latin that suffices for the being competent to say the Mass, albeit with a less than perfect understanding of the prayers. As a good spiritual aid, reading translations of the propers before the Mass, when able, and you should be able to know more or less what you are saying.


But leaving all that aside. Canon law has this Can. 249 The program of priestly formation is to provide that students not only are carefully taught their native language but also understand Latin well and have a suitable understanding of those foreign languages which seem necessary or useful for their formation or for the exercise of pastoral ministry.

If most seminaries leave priests with less than that, they are failing at their job


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