Login Register

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic Page 1 of 1   [ 9 posts ]   
Author Message
 Post subject: Priests in the Middle Ages
PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 4:53 pm 
Offline
Newbie
Newbie

Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:56 pm
Posts: 94
Religion: Christian
Priests would be appointed as clerks to handle local government transactions.
Noblemen would hire priests as their personal secretaries.
Did the Church stop the practice? If not, what did?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Priests in the Middle Ages
PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:35 pm 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 12:30 am
Posts: 7758
Location: The carrefour of ignorance is bliss & knowledge is power.
Religion: The One with All the Marks.
OK, this is a total shot in the dark, but here goes... Assuming what you say is correct:

Perhaps it stopped when the literacy level of the general population grew to a point where there were more than just a few people who could do the job.

Or... it could have been that the Church forbade priests from doing this because it did not want the clergy beholden to the nobles, at least in this manner.

Or... perhaps clerical compensation grew to the point where they did not have to hire themselves out as secretaries.

I await someone with a definitive reply.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Priests in the Middle Ages
PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 7:13 pm 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 4:21 pm
Posts: 14052
Location: Joyfully Caught in the Net
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: Knights of Columbus
Petronius wrote:
Priests would be appointed as clerks to handle local government transactions.
Noblemen would hire priests as their personal secretaries.
Did the Church stop the practice? If not, what did?


Why would the Church stop the practice? :scratch: The idea of the separation of church and state did not occur until the American experiment began and did not in Europe until far later and then, only in parts of Europe. For example, unlike the USA, the UK is still an officially Christian state. Her bishops still sit in the House of Lords and are engaged in secular governmental affairs. We may find that odd, but that is do to our "Enlightenment" perspective.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Priests in the Middle Ages
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:06 pm 
Offline
Newbie
Newbie

Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:56 pm
Posts: 94
Religion: Christian
The priests in the Middle Ages were exempted from paying taxes because their work was considered noble.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Priests in the Middle Ages
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:59 am 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 12:30 am
Posts: 7758
Location: The carrefour of ignorance is bliss & knowledge is power.
Religion: The One with All the Marks.
And they had a powerful lobbying organization.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Priests in the Middle Ages
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:34 am 
Offline
Journeyman
Journeyman
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2003 12:24 pm
Posts: 1012
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Religion: Catholic
The jobs described in this post are probably prohibited by Canon 285 (I am not a canon lawyer, so, I may be mistaken)



Can. 285 §1. Clerics are to refrain completely from all those things which are unbecoming to their state, according to the prescripts of particular law.

§2. Clerics are to avoid those things which, although not unbecoming, are nevertheless foreign to the clerical state.

§3. Clerics are forbidden to assume public offices which entail a participation in the exercise of civil power.

§4. Without the permission of their ordinary, they are not to take on the management of goods belonging to lay persons or secular offices which entail an obligation of rendering accounts. They are prohibited from giving surety even with their own goods without consultation with their proper ordinary. They also are to refrain from signing promissory notes, namely, those through which they assume an obligation to make payment on demand.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Priests in the Middle Ages
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:04 am 
Offline
Highness
Highness
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2015 9:36 am
Posts: 7432
Location: India
Religion: Syro Malabar Christian
lordpendragon wrote:
The jobs described in this post are probably prohibited by Canon 285 (I am not a canon lawyer, so, I may be mistaken)



Can. 285 §1. Clerics are to refrain completely from all those things which are unbecoming to their state, according to the prescripts of particular law.

§2. Clerics are to avoid those things which, although not unbecoming, are nevertheless foreign to the clerical state.

§3. Clerics are forbidden to assume public offices which entail a participation in the exercise of civil power.

§4. Without the permission of their ordinary, they are not to take on the management of goods belonging to lay persons or secular offices which entail an obligation of rendering accounts. They are prohibited from giving surety even with their own goods without consultation with their proper ordinary. They also are to refrain from signing promissory notes, namely, those through which they assume an obligation to make payment on demand.

This code was promulgated in 1983.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Priests in the Middle Ages
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:23 am 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder

Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 9:37 am
Posts: 812
Location: NYC
Religion: Catholic
Jack3 wrote:
lordpendragon wrote:
The jobs described in this post are probably prohibited by Canon 285 (I am not a canon lawyer, so, I may be mistaken)



Can. 285 §1. Clerics are to refrain completely from all those things which are unbecoming to their state, according to the prescripts of particular law.

§2. Clerics are to avoid those things which, although not unbecoming, are nevertheless foreign to the clerical state.

§3. Clerics are forbidden to assume public offices which entail a participation in the exercise of civil power.

§4. Without the permission of their ordinary, they are not to take on the management of goods belonging to lay persons or secular offices which entail an obligation of rendering accounts. They are prohibited from giving surety even with their own goods without consultation with their proper ordinary. They also are to refrain from signing promissory notes, namely, those through which they assume an obligation to make payment on demand.

This code was promulgated in 1983.


Yes. This forced a few priests in the USA to not seek re-election, including Fr. Robert Drinan, SJ.

From Wikipedia:
Quote:
Throughout Drinan's political career, his overt support of abortion rights drew significant opposition from Church leaders. They had repeatedly requested that he not hold political office.[2][4] Drinan attempted to reconcile his position with official Church doctrine by stating that while he was personally opposed to abortion, considering it "virtual infanticide,"[5] its legality was a separate issue from its morality. This argument failed to satisfy his critics. According to the Wall Street Journal, Drinan played a key role in the pro-choice platform becoming a common stance of politicians from the Kennedy family.[6]


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Priests in the Middle Ages
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:03 pm 
Offline
There Can Be Only One
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2008 10:44 pm
Posts: 11318
Location: Nuevo Mexico
Religion: Catholic
I vaguely recall, and will not research it, that the Church provided more than scribes. It also provided a communications network where missives were taken from abbey to monastery to cathedral, and then transferred under the aegis of Holy Mother Church in the person of a cleric -- to the next node in the network -- until reaching their destination.

Yes, network. It was a primitive form of the internet. Nothing is new.

My guess is that, with the improvement of ships and the recovery of seaborne transport, the Church had a competitor which could transfer communications much faster than terrestrial methods.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic Page 1 of 1   [ 9 posts ]   


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


Jump to: