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 Post subject: Children's liturgy?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:05 pm 
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Jedi Master
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Greetings,

This morning we had a school mass. We tend to have music from a children's hymnal which is very easy, but to adults it would be very trite. The little kids love to sing the music and it is very loud. They were smiling.

Then I looked back and the Middle schools students were all arms crossed and NOT singing as all. I began to think about the dimensions of mass: What was being communicated.

Mass was Seen as a CHILD thing, geared to children rather than an adult thing. Middle school students were separating themselves with the childish and striving for the adults. Since Mass is for little kids(as shown by the music), they would not get involved.

If we did an adult, more serious, reverent mass. Perhaps they would see Mass as an adult thing. They would be bored as children, but then strive for mass as an adult. In the end when they were grown they would be adults at Mass, rather than Adults who see mass as a thing to bring their kids.

Just some thoughts.

peace

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:33 pm 
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Sons of Thunder
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children's liturgy is an abomination...

but if the Church, and specifically the USCCB, is intent on selling this notiong that "unity in diversity" is a good thing, then having a children's liturgy is an excellent way to go about doing that.

it's much easier to brainwash kids than adults.

i mean, lookit...

start off the kids with children's liturgy...
further the brainwashing by offering them LifeTeen when they get to those "tween" and "teen" years...
by the time they get to an adult age, they will have no problem adjusting to a fully whacked out liberal novus ordo with 50 zillion EMHCs and Marty Haugen crap.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:51 pm 
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tAnGo wrote:
children's liturgy is an abomination...


I have to say I agree with this completely. There are many things that I see absolutely no use in and a 'children's liturgy'is one of them.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:52 pm 
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Handmaids of the Lord
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Come on, Tango, tell us how you REALLY feel!

:)

Father, I'd definitely crank the sobriety and "difficulty" level up a notch or two. If we expect the children to "get" things before their First Confession and First Holy Communion, how can we NOT expect them to understand the Mass?

This sort of reason is one of the many that caused me to seek out another parish. There is no children's liturgy (altho there is "LifeTeen"...fortunately, from what I hear, I have no experience with that) where we go. The dc sit with us thru the entire Mass....not in a Religious Ed class in another part of the building (I realize that you are not talking about a Sunday Mass, but the basic principle still applies).

If we dumb down our schools, we get children who have no desire to learn, no excitement about things such as science, geography, foreign languages, history, or math. If we dumb down our RELIGIOUS LIFE, our churches....we end up with children who have no desire to dig deeper...no desire to get involved, no desire to reach higher, challenge themselves to a better understanding of Our Lord, or anything else. It's just another saccharine experience.

Rachel (whose dds have been running around yelling "VOLO!" at each other since Mass on Sunday, which they now know means "I will it!", thanks to a very good homily at our TLM parish)

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 Post subject: Re: Children's liturgy?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 12:16 pm 
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TP wrote:
Greetings,

This morning we had a school mass. We tend to have music from a children's hymnal which is very easy, but to adults it would be very trite. The little kids love to sing the music and it is very loud. They were smiling.

Then I looked back and the Middle schools students were all arms crossed and NOT singing as all. I began to think about the dimensions of mass: What was being communicated.

Mass was Seen as a CHILD thing, geared to children rather than an adult thing. Middle school students were separating themselves with the childish and striving for the adults. Since Mass is for little kids(as shown by the music), they would not get involved.

If we did an adult, more serious, reverent mass. Perhaps they would see Mass as an adult thing. They would be bored as children, but then strive for mass as an adult. In the end when they were grown they would be adults at Mass, rather than Adults who see mass as a thing to bring their kids.

Just some thoughts.

peace



:clap:


I would personally like to see an end to children's liturgies and any other kind of liturgies that cater to individual groups. If we start giving people liturgies catered to their whims when their young, can we really be suprised when these people grow up and want to change the liturgy to their new whims?

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 Post subject: Re: Children's liturgy?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 2:40 pm 
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Handmaids of the Lord
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TP wrote:
Greetings,

This morning we had a school mass. We tend to have music from a children's hymnal which is very easy, but to adults it would be very trite. The little kids love to sing the music and it is very loud. They were smiling.

Then I looked back and the Middle schools students were all arms crossed and NOT singing as all. I began to think about the dimensions of mass: What was being communicated.

Mass was Seen as a CHILD thing, geared to children rather than an adult thing. Middle school students were separating themselves with the childish and striving for the adults. Since Mass is for little kids(as shown by the music), they would not get involved.

If we did an adult, more serious, reverent mass. Perhaps they would see Mass as an adult thing. They would be bored as children, but then strive for mass as an adult. In the end when they were grown they would be adults at Mass, rather than Adults who see mass as a thing to bring their kids.

Just some thoughts.

peace


I'd be curious to see the body language of those same children at a regular adult mass. Maybe I'm a cynic, but I'd bet you'd still catch a lot of middle school students not too keen on participating - at least that's the way I was at that age. It was an age thing, not a content thing. So maybe it's worth considering if the songs etc. were really beneath the middle schoolers, or if their attitude would be like that no matter what.

Also, I'm wondering if everyone's talking about the same thing here. I get the impression that TP is referring to a special Mass that was specifically for the school children - not something where the children left mass.

All 3 churches I attend (I have my parish, and then the ones I occasionalyl visit) have schools. They will occasionally have a school mass for the feast days, for Catholic School's week, or to kick off the school year etc. At these masses, adults are welcome, but the majority of the congregation is made up of the school children. I personally enjoy the simple music. And while I occasionally get bored listening to the homilies that are addressed to the kids, I don't mind. After all, usually the priest considers his audience when making up his homily - so why shouldn't it be more kid-friendly when the congregation is mostly kids. We're talking about special masses, not every sunday. And I'm assuming that we're also not talking about liturgical abuses.

I appreciate what TP is saying though because in trying to make the mass "kid-friendly," whoever planned it may have set the bar too low or maybe it was geared only to the young ones and the older children got left out. And I agree with his insight on the inspiration that a reverent mass can provide to children. I just don't think that every chidren's mass is necessarily a bad idea.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:40 pm 
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Our first Mass every Sunday is considered a "children's Mass", although we never use the children's liturgy. The only things child-like about it are: the junior choir sings, the Little Ministries hold up banners for the Alleluia and Great Amen, and there may be a song from the children's hymnal during Communion. Other than those, the liturgy is the same. Father refuses to "dumb down" the Mass to suit the kids. Even the homily is the same for each Mass. A children's Mass can be done properly.

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