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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 8:50 am 
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Norwegianblue wrote:
Doom wrote:
Just to be pedantic, I am not aware of a single Protestant denomination that refers to its ministers as 'priests', save for a few Anglicans, but since many of them insist they aren't 'Protestant' out of politeness I won't press the point! :P


In Norwegian, the name for a Catholic priest and Lutheran minister (and Anglican clergyman for that sake) is the same: 'prest'.

Edited to add: btw, just explaining the likely reason why the word 'priest' was used and that a Norwegian person wouldn't automatically know this was not the case in English. I'm not suggesting this should be transferred to English, where usage is obviously different.


Well, in Scandinavia we also have the word pastor for Nonconformist clergyman. To point out the difference between the old state churches and the free churches. Sometime we use Protestant priest and Catholic priest if we need to distinguish between those two.

I'm not sure about Denmark and Norway, (at least Denmark went further with the reformation) but in Sweden the reformation was stopped quite soon after the RCC asset's in Sweden had been overtaken by the king. So it is liturgically and theologically high church, having retained priests, vestments, and the Mass during the Reformation. Even the Transubstantiation is almost similar in the Swedish Church and in RCC. They also believes they have maintained the historic episcopate.

It's about the same for the Evangelical Lutheran Church of Finland.

Edit: But there are a LOT of other things that separate the Swedish Church from the RCC! I do not know if Scandinavian priests act In Persona Christi or not. I think this would be very interesting. I'll get back to you on that if you all are interested.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 11:25 am 
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Norwegianblue wrote:
Doom wrote:
Just to be pedantic, I am not aware of a single Protestant denomination that refers to its ministers as 'priests', save for a few Anglicans, but since many of them insist they aren't 'Protestant' out of politeness I won't press the point! :P


In Norwegian, the name for a Catholic priest and Lutheran minister (and Anglican clergyman for that sake) is the same: 'prest'.

Edited to add: btw, just explaining the likely reason why the word 'priest' was used and that a Norwegian person wouldn't automatically know this was not the case in English. I'm not suggesting this should be transferred to English, where usage is obviously different.



You learn something new everyday.....

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 8:03 pm 
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Doom wrote:
Just to be pedantic, I am not aware of a single Protestant denomination that refers to its ministers as 'priests', save for a few Anglicans, but since many of them insist they aren't 'Protestant' out of politeness I won't press the point! :P


You are very kind.

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Anglicanus Catholicus

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 10:23 pm 
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Viking: Far as I know, the GIRM applies to the Latin Rite of the Catholic Church in America. It is for the dioceses of America and I don't know if it applies outside the country or not.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 10:27 pm 
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Teacher's Wife wrote:
Viking: Far as I know, the GIRM applies to the Latin Rite of the Catholic Church in America. It is for the dioceses of America and it applies to the universal Church as well.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 10:33 pm 
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Very interesting

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 11:32 pm 
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Teacher's Wife wrote:
Viking: Far as I know, the GIRM applies to the Latin Rite of the Catholic Church in America. It is for the dioceses of America and I don't know if it applies outside the country or not.


The GIRM is for every Latin Rite Diocese and is universal.

As Obi pointed out, certain exceptions can be be made for countries, but the GIRM is universal.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:48 pm 
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Being Norwegian, I found this quite interesting. Now, I had a look at the website for this church and there was not much information on their ecumenical work, but I did notice that they listed it as "ecumenical service", not mass (for those of you who are Norwegian "gudstjeneste" vs "messe"). Could potentially make a difference. What does your church say about these services - do they describe them in any way? Is the Holy Communion shared and celebrated in the services?

Your ex-Lutheran priest has caused a bit of attention in the press over the years, good and bad. Some Catholics think his views are too liberal. On the positive side, he has also sparked interest in the Catholic faith, causing many to want to learn more - and probably convert. Catholicism is miniscule in Norway, most people are hardly aware of its existence. My Lutheran grandmother thinks it's a sect of some sorts! ::):

The Lutheran church has quite a lot in common with Catholicism compared to other protestant denominations. I think it is important to promote good relations between the churches and support euchumenism, but without compromising.

For those who are interested, this is the Lutheran view on the Eucharist (from Wiki). It is not as far off as you may think, but still not the same as the Catholic view (and thus we can't celebrate together).

Lutherans - the Sacramental Union: "in, with, and under the forms of bread and wine"
Lutherans believe that the Body and Blood of Christ are "truly and substantially present in, with and under the forms" of the consecrated bread and wine (the elements), so that communicants eat and drink both the elements and the true Body and Blood of Christ Himself (cf. Augsburg Confession, Article 10) in the Sacrament of Holy Communion. The Lutheran doctrine of the Real Presence is more accurately and formally known as "the Sacramental Union." It has been inaccurately called "consubstantiation." This term is specifically rejected by Lutheran churches and theologians since it creates confusion about the actual doctrine, and it subjects the doctrine to the control of a philosophical concept in the same manner as, in their view, does the term "transubstantiation."

For Lutherans, there is no sacrament unless the elements are used according to Christ's institution (consecration, distribution, and reception). This was first articulated in the Wittenberg Concord of 1536 in the formula: Nihil habet rationem sacramenti extra usum a Christo institutum ("Nothing has the character of a sacrament apart from the use instituted by Christ"). Some Lutherans use this formula as their rationale for opposing in the church the reservation of the consecrated elements, private masses, the practice of Corpus Christi, and the belief that the reliquæ (what remains of the consecrated elements after all have communed in the worship service) are still sacramentally united to the Body and Blood of Christ. This interpretation is not universal among Lutherans. The consecrated elements are treated with reverence; and, in some Lutheran churches, are reserved as in Orthodox, Roman Catholic, and Anglican practice. The external Eucharistic adoration is not usually practiced by most Lutherans except for bowing, genuflecting, and kneeling to receive Holy Communion. The reliquæ traditionally are consumed by the celebrant after the people have communed, except that a small amount may be reserved for delivery to those too ill or infirm to attend the service. In this case, the consecrated elements are to be delivered quickly, preserving the connection between the communion of the ill person and that of the congregation gathered in public divine service.

Lutherans use the terms "in, with and under the forms of consecrated bread and wine" and "Sacramental Union" to distinguish their understanding of the Lord's Supper from those of the Reformed and other traditions. More "liberal" Lutheran churches tend to practice open communion, inviting all who are baptized to participate. Confessional Lutheran churches view fellowship as an undivided whole and practice closed communion (or close communion), restricting participation to those who are in complete doctrinal agreement with them. Fellowship involves the formal declaration of "altar and pulpit fellowship," another term for eucharistic sharing coupled with the acceptance of the ministrations of one another's clergy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_Presence

Hypothetical question - Would it be wrong for a protestant minister to preach in a Catholic Mass if he had written it together with the Catholic priest and that the contents were matters on which both churches agreed?

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