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 Post subject: Pro Multis = For Many
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:51 pm 
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Jedi Padawan
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Cardinal Arinze, of the CDW, has informed the episcopal conferences that the statement in Latin pro multis will now be translated as for many in the new English translations.

http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=47719

If the Vatican is pushing this change on the bishops, will it be enforced soon in the US?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 1:50 am 
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It will not take effect until the new text of the Sacramentary is put into service. It will be quite some time before it is ready. At this point, the USCCB has only approved part of the new text - so Rome won't even get the text until the its completely approved by the various national conferences.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 11:47 am 
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According to a recent issue of French newspaper La Croix, this change will not affect French-speaking people since "la multitude" is already in use. Besides English ("for all"), the change will also affect other languages: Italian ("per tutti"), German ("für alle"), Spanish ("por todos los hombres") and Portuguese. The third typical edition of the Roman Missal, printed in 2002, uses Latin words: "pro multis."

After consultation with episcopal conferences, Cardinal Arinze has requested that the faithful be instructed about more precise translation of "pro multis" in vernacular language.

They are also checking that God should not be presented as feminine.

The original article from La Croix in French:

Rome retouches translations of the Eucharistic Prayer

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 12:29 pm 
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Funny, the Germans are implementing it more immediately. I see no reason why we cannot. And as every other English speaking conference has approved the text, the whiny USCCB shouldn't be allowed to hold it up. But that is my opinion

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 2:14 pm 
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Well, I have heard that a canon lawyer is involved in a project of translating Latin instead of English to American Sign Language!

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 3:53 pm 
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The point of the delay is to avoid making changes piecemeal. New Missals will have to be printed. It seems most prudent to wait until the entire group of changes is available and the English translation is approved by the Bishops' Conferences and the Vatican. There is no question that "for all" is a less than perfect translation. However, there is also no question that it is a valid translation and does not affect the validity of the Mass in any way. Therefore, it is not a matter of great urgency.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 1:22 pm 
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I was visiting a parish this Sunday, at which this change was explained by the celebrating priest (who was also visiting) and was used.

Change is slow in my area, so I don't expect to see the change in this area anytime soon.

Dani

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 9:41 am 
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One of the priests at my parish is now using, "for many." He's done this at the last two Masses my family has attended. I am thoroughly in favor of the eventual change, but is he being disobedient by jumping the gun?


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 8:03 pm 
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Yes. (unless, perhaps, his bishop has approved its immediate use)

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 10:39 am 
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While your priest is, IMO, correct, the technical answer is yes, he's being disobedient because the change has not been officially implemented at this point.

And I will disagree with David that his bishop could approve its immediate use.

A bishop can no more change the Mass of his own accord than a priest.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 10:57 am 
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Handmaids of the Lord
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Stupid question time ...

I've seen a booklet produced by Ignatius Press called "The Mass of Vatican II" which has been in publication for a while now. It has "pro multis" translated as "for many". It also translates "et cum spiritu tuo" as "and with your spirit" (rather than the current "and also with you").

Is a parish that uses this booklet being disobedient? Or is there an legitimate option for the use of this? Now granted I've never seen a parish that used this, or the Adoremus Hymnal, do the Mass in English it's always, in my limited experience, been used to celebrate the Novus Ordo in Latin.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 11:07 am 
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tAnGo wrote:
While your priest is, IMO, correct, the technical answer is yes, he's being disobedient because the change has not been officially implemented at this point.

And I will disagree with David that his bishop could approve its immediate use.

A bishop can no more change the Mass of his own accord than a priest.


My question is, officially implemented by whom? Who "officially implements" this change in the US? This is a wording change that is coming to the US from the CDF, so who is the bishop or priest technically disobeying.

Thanks for bearing with me!

Dani

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During His trials Our Lord would not respond to the chief priests (Mt 14:61), or Herod (Lk 23:9) or Pilate (Jn 19:9). Words had failed. All that could penetrate those hardened hearts was the witness of divine love, the offering of His life to the Father. So also for us — when words fail the greatest way to “win” an argument is by acts of love. - Fr. Paul Scalia

There is no law about nougatine. - Chef Stephane Glacier


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 8:08 pm 
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Jedi Padawan
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Carole wrote:
Stupid question time ...

I've seen a booklet produced by Ignatius Press called "The Mass of Vatican II" which has been in publication for a while now. It has "pro multis" translated as "for many". It also translates "et cum spiritu tuo" as "and with your spirit" (rather than the current "and also with you").

Is a parish that uses this booklet being disobedient? Or is there an legitimate option for the use of this? Now granted I've never seen a parish that used this, or the Adoremus Hymnal, do the Mass in English it's always, in my limited experience, been used to celebrate the Novus Ordo in Latin.


As far as I know about those booklets, Carole, as long as there is a statement that says the translations are not official translations, such as what are currently in the ICEL missal, then Ignatius can print them. I have been to a parish that celebrates the Latin Pauline Mass and the pastor there prints out a booklet that is similar to Ignatius', but emphasizes that they are not the official translations. It is perfectly legal as far as I have seen.

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When we think of all the Lord has done for us, we can never do enough. The word "enough" is not in love's vocabulary.
-Archbishop Fulton Sheen, The Priest Is Not His Own

My blog - http://ascendingcarmel.blogspot.com


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