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 Post subject: Propers for the Introit?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 4:22 pm 
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Jedi Master
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Greetings,

I just returned from a Seminar on Chant. We chant nothing in our parish and we use GIA and OCP hymnals. None of my music ministry people are open to chant even theoretically. There is lots of room for catechesis.

There are propers for the Introit, Gradual(psalm), Alleluia, Offetory, and Communion. Does anyone's parish use these propers? Do you use the Roman Gradual? The Anglican Church, and the Anglican use churches have translated them into english and put them to chant. Has anyone used the English translations of the propers?

This would save a lot of fighting over songs if we just did the songs the church gave us to sing.

How does your church use the propers?

peace

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 4:44 pm 
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You're making me sad. :(


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 9:08 am 
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When I arrived in my parish, not even the pslams were sung. After a whole lot of hassle, I've now gotten the choirs to the point where they will attempt them. The "folk choir" actually does a more-or-less improvised chant, a cappella of course, and it works well. The people have begun to listen closely and join in singing the antiphon. The so-called "traditional choir" sings, but only under protest. They choose not to practice much, and they try to sing the same "seasonal" pslam every Sunday. I'm struck by the fact that the folk choir is more traditional and flexible, even though they don't read music, play and sing by ear, and have a worrisome fondness for Cary Landry. The traditional choir keeps trying to be traditional to their own drumbeat, trying to argue me into "The Old Rugged Cross" and other favorites of theirs.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 11:38 am 
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Father, are you familiar with Carlos Rossini's work? He did SATB settings, with organ accompaniment, of all the Sundays and feasts in the liturgical year (old calendar). Paxbooks is the only place I know that has it. I don't even have a copy myself, but it looks very intriguing.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 11:56 am 
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Greetings,

My traditional choir left the parish. It is very sad because they where very talented and very good people. However, they were not open to anything. The choir director went to ONE conference in 1972 and does not believe he needs to change. I wish they would be open and come back.

peace

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 12:15 pm 
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Our pastor is starting to introduce chant in October. Tomorrow he will be handing out CD's to each family so we can start learning the parts of the mass in Latin. We are going to start with the Kyrie (I know, it's Greek) and the Agnus Dei, and gradually work our way up to doing all the responces in Latin.
There is a good book/cd for this called "Understanding the Latin Mass: Hear and Learn the Words of the Novus Ordo" by Marion Smedburg. You can view it Clickhere
I really like this book because you can learn what all those little marks mean!
And you can listen to someone with a decent voice sing the parts. She also has Latin English translations that are literal not dynamic. She actually uses the parts of the Mass to teach the rudiments of Latin Grammar. I highly recommend it.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 2:20 pm 
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Greetings,

You said: Our pastor is starting to introduce chant in October.

Response: How are the people responding to it? Do they complain and ask why we are praying in words we don't know? Or are they excited about doing CAtholic music from our tradition? OR are they just "Eh, I come to mass and do whatever they say?"

peace

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 3:03 pm 
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Well, so far all the families with young children are excited, and wishing it wasn't quite so early in the morning (it will be the 8 am Mass). This mass has always had more traditional music, so I don't think it came as too big an adjustment. This is a large parish, so there is a choir Mass, a Teen Mass, a Folk Mass, and this 8 am Mass. I tend to associate more with the home schooling community within the Parish and we are all pleased. But I am sure that there are some who are not happy about it. I have sympathy for pastors, who have such diverse flocks, it must be possible only with God's grace to stay on an even keel!
From the Pastor's newsletter:
Why are we doing this? Because our popes and bishops have asked us to. Many people think that the Second Vatican Council wanted to end the use of Latin Chant in the Mass forty years ago. But that is not so. What the popes and bishops called for was the use of both the common language of the people as well as Latin in the Mass. {Then he quotes Sacrosanctum Concilium #'s 54 & 116}
The pastor goes on at length about Latin Chant being the musical heritage of Catholics and explains how he is going to implement the change. I will get a better feel for how others have responded tomorrow.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 9:18 pm 
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TP wrote:
Greetings,

My traditional choir left the parish. It is very sad because they where very talented and very good people. However, they were not open to anything. The choir director went to ONE conference in 1972 and does not believe he needs to change. I wish they would be open and come back.

peace


You're still stuck with that one guy, eh?

Father - you really do need to hire a full-time music director so they answer to you. You're the one in charge. They should be listening to you.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 10:40 pm 
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Greetings,

You said: Father - you really do need to hire a full-time music director so they answer to you.

Response: I inhereted close to a million dollars in debt, and an unbalanced budget. After cutting 3 full time salaries, renting the rectory, and cancelling a couple of multi-year contracts with business we were still in the red $60,000. I think this year we will have a balanced budget, but only by a hair string. I don't see hiring a full time anyone until the people understand that holding their money back because they are angry over merging parishes is only hurting the work of God, and themselves, not me. It is very difficult to bring reconciliation to the parish. However we have 3-7 new families joining evey week. At least the new families are exciting about all the great stuff happening in the parish.

peace

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 7:40 am 
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Can you budget it in in a couple years? I realize it won't be the instant change you want. But given a couple years....

BTW, here's what we're doing at our parish now. Maybe you can try this.

Talk to the pianist. If I recall, you said he/she was gifted and in school, volunteering their time. Present the idea of them taking leadership of one group for one mass a month to give "'72-boy" a break. The pianist would lead the "Schola Cantorum" a group of select voices that can read music and tackle more difficult pieces of music. That one mass a month would feature a great piece of music (let's say - Vivaldi) and SOME mass parts in Latin (those that people may recognize, like the Sanctus or Agnus Dei). The Schola Cantorum Mass would be announced in the bulletin and announcements the week before. Once a month will not threaten your regular guy. It's a special group, meant to give him a break.

Then, when you can hire a permanent music director in two-three years - you give the schola a perment mass time, and have the music director alter your regular choir selections to be a bit more traditional.

The congregation will accept this because the change was gradual.

THEN - after you get the new director, you start a campaign to renovate the organ. Parishoners who donate a certain amount will have their names engraved on the organs pipes or something.

Trust me. A step by step plan will work. You're in debt now. But if you plan it out, in five years you'll have a great music program.

Maybe you should discuss this with your parish financial advisor.
--Ann

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