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 Post subject: New crucifix for our new church (pics)
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 6:23 pm 
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This is the crucifix at St. Clare's, fully assembled, somewhere in Italy where it was made. It is a simplified variation on the San Damiano Crucifix. The San Damiano Crucifix has something like 20-some people depicted, Christ, His Mother, John, Longinus the centurion, the 12 Apostles, etc. We wanted to simplify representation, but preserve the overall sense of tradition.

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 Post subject: Re: New crucifix for our new church (pics)
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 6:28 pm 
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The crucifix arrived 3 days ago in 3 large crates. It has been reassembled and it is in the process of being hung from the ceiling in our church as I post this.


The rest of the pictures were taken when the corpus and cross were lying in pieces on the floor in our church. Unfortunately, even a close-up photo doesn't really capture all the detail.

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 Post subject: Re: New crucifix for our new church (pics)
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 6:33 pm 
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The corpus is about 6' from head to heal.
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 Post subject: Re: New crucifix for our new church (pics)
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 6:47 pm 
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Wow. That's great.

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 Post subject: Re: New crucifix for our new church (pics)
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 6:48 pm 
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The angels surrounding the corpus bear what is known in iconography as the "Arma Christi," the weapons of Christ, used in His victory over sin and death.

The skull and bones at the foot of the cross are a reminder of Christ's triumph over death. The place where Christ was crucified was called Golgotha, "the skull place." There is also an ancient tradition that the site of the Crucifixion was also the burial place of Adam - Christ is the 'new Adam.'

Our crucifix depicts the moment just before His death when our Lord looked at His mother and the beloved disciple and gave her into the disiple's care, saying to them, "Woman, behold your son; son, behold your mother."

INRI (Latin) - "Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews"


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 Post subject: Re: New crucifix for our new church (pics)
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 6:59 pm 
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Thanks, Bon. Our parish has been waiting, and working for this for a long time.

Our temporary building only sat about 475 people. We had 50 to 150 people sitting outside - in AZ, not so bad during the winter (unless it rained), not so good during the spring, summer and monsoon season.

The new building seats about 1600 to 2000 people. No pews yet. Concrete floor. Bare minimum furnishings - we used the liturgical furnishings and appointments from the old church. we just needed to get everybody inside. We moved in this past Christmas Eve.


St. Clare's website
http://www.diocesephoenix.org/parish/st_clare/


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 Post subject: Re: New crucifix for our new church (pics)
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 10:01 pm 
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Great picture to a wonderful addition to your Church.

Is there a special blessing to be said?

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 Post subject: Re: New crucifix for our new church (pics)
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 12:14 am 
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I think so, but I'm not sure.

What I mean is, there is prob'ly a rite of blessing for a new crucifix in an old church. By 'old' I mean already dedicated. But if you're in a new church that hasn't been dedicated, then there is another rite of blessing that is part of the dedication mass. The two rites are probably similar, but its been a while since I've gone over the documents.

The church hasn't been dedicated yet. We don't have a new, permanent altar; until we do, we won't be dedicating the building. The plan is to obtain the permanent altar, ambo (pulpit/lectern), baptistry and tabernacle - because IIRC those are all items which are anointed or blessed during a dedication Mass (maybe not the ambo, I'd have to check.) Oh yes, and the walls of the church are also anointed, so a small dedication cross is supposed to go on the walls in each spot where they were anointed, either 4 or 12. We're going with 12, so we'll need 12 crosses.

After that, we'll worry about tile for the floor, pews, expanding the parking lot, stain glass windows, and the facades for the confessionals, baptistry area and the reredos. It'll take a while.

The crucifix is up now. I got to help by sitting on the lowest level of scaffolding in order to weigh it down while they hoisted the crucifix. I knew I was good for something!


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 Post subject: Re: New crucifix for our new church (pics)
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 2:00 am 
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Why are the angels female? I thought angels were all male, have I missed something?

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 Post subject: Re: New crucifix for our new church (pics)
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 8:41 am 
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Angels are androgenous spirits. They are depicted in art in various forms.

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 Post subject: Re: New crucifix for our new church (pics)
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 11:40 am 
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ajw333 wrote:
Why are the angels female? I thought angels were all male, have I missed something?

Strictly speaking, I don't they could be said to be differentiated by sex, like humans. Generally, though, there are certain iconographic and traditional practices. You'll usually see the Archangels such as St. Michael, St. Gabriel, and St. Raphael depicted as male. Many others are shown as female. And in many cases, they are depicted without any particular clue as to their sex. The decision of how to represent an angel in art would usually be made on the basis of their characteristics or task- St. Michael, as the princeps militiae coelestis, would sensibly be seen as fulfilling a masculine role, for example, and that's mirrored in art. It isn't strictly correct, of course, but it'd be difficult to represent them otherwise.

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 Post subject: Re: New crucifix for our new church (pics)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 12:58 am 
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Mr.Rudeness wrote:
ajw333 wrote:
Why are the angels female? I thought angels were all male, have I missed something?

Strictly speaking, I don't they could be said to be differentiated by sex, like humans. Generally, though, there are certain iconographic and traditional practices. You'll usually see the Archangels such as St. Michael, St. Gabriel, and St. Raphael depicted as male. Many others are shown as female. And in many cases, they are depicted without any particular clue as to their sex. The decision of how to represent an angel in art would usually be made on the basis of their characteristics or task- St. Michael, as the princeps militiae coelestis, would sensibly be seen as fulfilling a masculine role, for example, and that's mirrored in art. It isn't strictly correct, of course, but it'd be difficult to represent them otherwise.
Not wishing to be argumentative, but given that all the angels in Scripture have masculine names, shouldn't we assume that there aren't any females?

I'm just thinking that man was made in God's image and female was made from man. Perhaps human woman are unique in the spiritual realm in that they have no angelic equivalent.

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 Post subject: Re: New crucifix for our new church (pics)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 9:55 am 
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Angels are not male or female.

The name Michael (Mikha-el) means "who is like God". Gabriel (Gavhri-el) means "God is my strength". Raphael (Refa-el) means "God has healed".

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 Post subject: Re: New crucifix for our new church (pics)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 10:00 am 
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and when we die, we do not become angels.

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 Post subject: Re: New crucifix for our new church (pics)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 5:01 pm 
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Ancient Oracle wrote:
and when we die, we do not become angels.
Yes I know. My point is that the Godhead and the angels all seem to be masculine. The feminine quality may be unique to human women with there no feminine spiritual beings in heaven.

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 Post subject: Re: New crucifix for our new church (pics)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 5:23 pm 
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As to the names, gender in language isn't always a consistent concept. We think of a ship as an 'it', but will refer to it as a 'she'. In German, the word for girl is "das Mädchen", which, despite referring to a female person, is neuter in form, meaning it is neither male nor female for the purpose of grammatical gender. So there's that to take into account. At the same time, given that those angels and archangels were seen as performing masculine roles, it would've made sense to give them masculine names. But then again, I don't how the angels were given their names, or by whom (or Whom).

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 Post subject: Re: New crucifix for our new church (pics)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 5:23 pm 
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ajw333 wrote:
Ancient Oracle wrote:
and when we die, we do not become angels.
Yes I know. My point is that the Godhead and the angels all seem to be masculine. The feminine quality may be unique to human women with there no feminine spiritual beings in heaven.


humans are spiritual beings...

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 Post subject: Re: New crucifix for our new church (pics)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 5:34 pm 
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RaginCajunJoe wrote:
ajw333 wrote:
Ancient Oracle wrote:
and when we die, we do not become angels.
Yes I know. My point is that the Godhead and the angels all seem to be masculine. The feminine quality may be unique to human women with there no feminine spiritual beings in heaven.


humans are spiritual beings...
"For a man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God, but woman is the glory of man." 1 Corinthians 11:7

This verse lends some credence to the idea tha femininity is a uniquely human trait.

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 Post subject: Re: New crucifix for our new church (pics)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 10:14 pm 
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Angels are neither male nor female.

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 Post subject: Re: New crucifix for our new church (pics)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 11:44 pm 
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Signum Crucis wrote:
Angels are neither male nor female.
Gabriel appears to be like a man;

Dan 8:15 "When I, Daniel, had seen the vision, I sought to understand it. And behold, there stood before me one having the appearance of a man. And I heard a man's voice between the banks of the Ulai, and it called, “Gabriel, make this man understand the vision.” So he came near where I stood. And when he came, I was frightened and fell on my face. But he said to me, “Understand, O son of man, that the vision is for the time of the end.”

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