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 Post subject: Why is this music chosen for a Catholic Mass?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:01 pm 
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At 06:00 in this video (of a mass in the EF) some special music is performed. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KITr--RXH8w Why would anyone choose what I refer as "concert music" for Mass? Why do some people have this instead of normal church music? I do not hear this as church music at all. Why is this music choosen in stead of normal standard church music? I can see Gregorian chant and hymns as church mudic but this does not sound like "church" at all. Please help me understand this.


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 Post subject: Re: Why is this music chosen for a Catholic Mass?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:07 pm 
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Much of what you might regard as "concert" music was written for this very purpose.

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 Post subject: Re: Why is this music chosen for a Catholic Mass?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 1:06 pm 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Much of what you might regard as "concert" music was written for this very purpose.


:cloud9:


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 Post subject: Re: Why is this music chosen for a Catholic Mass?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 3:16 pm 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Much of what you might regard as "concert" music was written for this very purpose.

How do you focus on the words with this kind of singing? Or maybe the words are less imortant than I think?


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 Post subject: Re: Why is this music chosen for a Catholic Mass?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 3:30 pm 
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The words are usually chosen from scripture or from liturgical texts and would be familiar to the congregation.

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 Post subject: Re: Why is this music chosen for a Catholic Mass?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 4:16 pm 
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nothing inherently wrong with polyphony or polyphonic chant.

personally, i don't really care for it because it tends to disrupt the natural flow of the Mass.... which is why the priest in the video is constantly going back over to the side to sit down and wait for the choir to finish its thing.

i mean.. it takes them 20 minutes before he even gets to the collect.
incidentally, 1/2 the people chant the wrong amen following the collect (at 22:20).
guy chanting the gradual has a great voice... great job.

ok... i got too much into watching that.
nice video.


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 Post subject: Re: Why is this music chosen for a Catholic Mass?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 4:20 pm 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
The words are usually chosen from scripture or from liturgical texts and would be familiar to the congregation.


can use polyphony for the ordinaries .... some of the propers.. or at least, it's not unheard of for the offertory to be done in polyphony.


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 Post subject: Re: Why is this music chosen for a Catholic Mass?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 4:34 pm 
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tAnGo wrote:
nothing inherently wrong with polyphony or polyphonic chant.

personally, i don't really care for it because it tends to disrupt the natural flow of the Mass.... which is why the priest in the video is constantly going back over to the side to sit down and wait for the choir to finish its thing.

i mean.. it takes them 20 minutes before he even gets to the collect.
incidentally, 1/2 the people chant the wrong amen following the collect (at 22:20).
guy chanting the gradual has a great voice... great job.

ok... i got too much into watching that.
nice video.

It kinda disrupts the the flow.
Also, I find it too virtousic sometimes. Some church music is just vrtiouso music
I like the Gregorian chant or something simmilar.
I cannot even sing Gregorian chant that well right now so polyphony will have to wait.
I am no virtuoso yet.


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 Post subject: Re: Why is this music chosen for a Catholic Mass?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 4:40 pm 
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ingenting wrote:
tAnGo wrote:
nothing inherently wrong with polyphony or polyphonic chant.

personally, i don't really care for it because it tends to disrupt the natural flow of the Mass.... which is why the priest in the video is constantly going back over to the side to sit down and wait for the choir to finish its thing.

i mean.. it takes them 20 minutes before he even gets to the collect.
incidentally, 1/2 the people chant the wrong amen following the collect (at 22:20).
guy chanting the gradual has a great voice... great job.

ok... i got too much into watching that.
nice video.

It kinda disrupts the the flow.
Also, I find it too virtousic sometimes. Some church music is just vrtiouso music
I like the Gregorian chant or something simmilar.
I cannot even sing Gregorian chant that well right now so polyphony will have to wait.
I am no virtuoso yet.


I agree with you in general.
In some settings, it would seem more proper (think: a huge mass at the vatican, or a national cathedral, i.e., some place big with lots and lots of people involved in serving the mass), but in the vast majority of places, it just seems a little out of place to me for the reasons you share.

our little chapel is only about 70 or 80 people.
we do gregorian chant exclusively and it serves us just fine. any polyphony would be over the top.... but in any case, the choir is so small anyway, we couldn't do it even if we wanted to. which we can't. and so we don't.


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 Post subject: Re: Why is this music chosen for a Catholic Mass?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 6:42 pm 
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tAnGo wrote:

our little chapel is only about 70 or 80 people.
we do gregorian chant exclusively and it serves us just fine. any polyphony would be over the top.... but in any case, the choir is so small anyway, we couldn't do it even if we wanted to. which we can't. and so we don't.


My parish church has fewer people than yours, no one to play the organ anymore, nobody can sing well enough to lead the congregation as there is no choir. I don't think many in the congregation know what Gregorian chant even is. :(


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 Post subject: Re: Why is this music chosen for a Catholic Mass?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 6:46 pm 
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Organists. How quaint.

(Sadly.)

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 Post subject: Re: Why is this music chosen for a Catholic Mass?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:21 pm 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Organists. How quaint.

(Sadly.)


We had an organ and organist for many years. Organist passed away, organ was sold. Then we had a parishioner who played guitar (quietly and simply) in the back. Guitarist passed away. A lady who was a classically trained vocalist took over leading us in song. She got offended and transferred to another parish. All we had left was a bunch of former Baptists doing their former Baptist thing to Catholic hymns. Our parish is predominantly Hispanic. Waiting for the mariachi band to make an appearance, as it did at our sister parish.


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 Post subject: Re: Why is this music chosen for a Catholic Mass?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 12:45 am 
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You seem to have a high casualty rate in your music ministry.

We have a weekly Spanish Mass. Guitars and all. In the traditional, local manner. I've attended and find it enjoyable. Mariachis, however......

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 Post subject: Re: Why is this music chosen for a Catholic Mass?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 2:15 pm 
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I would quibble about sitting the musicians right in front of the sanctuary like that.

tAnGo wrote:
In some settings, it would seem more proper (think: a huge mass at the vatican, or a national cathedral, i.e., some place big with lots and lots of people involved in serving the mass), but in the vast majority of places, it just seems a little out of place to me for the reasons you share.

The issue with this is that - this music isn't being used at the Vatican or in large Cathedrals, so someone has to preserve it and in its proper context. Yeah, it might seem a bit out of place but they are doing a necessary task. When sacred music takes its proper place in the Church again, then smaller churches and little chapels can go back to nothing but plainchant.

Although - I have to add that we have a small choir too but they're still capable of singing polyphony. How dreadful it would be never to hear Mozart's Ave Verum Corpus in little churches!

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 Post subject: Re: Why is this music chosen for a Catholic Mass?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 8:39 pm 
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We have an organist. And a boy choir. And NO GUITAR OR DRUMS! :cloud9:

When I lived in San Antonio, though, we regularly attended the Mariachi Mass at the Missíon San José (a US National Park and a UNESCO historic site, as well as an active Roman Catholic parish). After we moved to Tennessee, it wasn’t until I attended Mass that I realized I’d forgotten how to sing the “Lamb of God” prayer in English. Took me about a month to be able to do it without help. :oops:

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 Post subject: Re: Why is this music chosen for a Catholic Mass?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 8:44 pm 
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English. How quaint.

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 Post subject: Re: Why is this music chosen for a Catholic Mass?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:14 pm 
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Mrs. Timmy wrote:
... I’d forgotten how to sing the “Lamb of God” prayer in English. Took me about a month to be able to do it without help. :oops:


In this form?

Cordero de Dios, que quitas el pecado del mundo, ten piedad de nosotros.
Cordero de Dios, que quitas el pecado del mundo, ten piedad de nosotros.
Cordero de Dios, que quitas el pecado del mundo, danos la paz.


We do it this way:

Agnus Dei, qui tollis peccata mundi, miserere nobis.
Agnus Dei, qui tollis peccata mundi, miserere nobis.
Agnus Dei, qui tollis peccata mundi, dona nobis pacem.

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 Post subject: Re: Why is this music chosen for a Catholic Mass?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 1:42 am 
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In San Antonio, we sang it in Spanish. The first parish we attended in Tennessee sings it in English. The parish we attend now sings it in Latin. :fyi:

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 Post subject: Re: Why is this music chosen for a Catholic Mass?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 9:14 am 
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As usual, German is neglected :cry:

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 Post subject: Re: Why is this music chosen for a Catholic Mass?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 12:11 pm 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
As usual, German is neglected :cry:

Especially Niederdeutsch. A real shame.

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