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 Post subject: Question on Priests
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:02 pm 
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Why is that so few Priests are musicians?
Many seem to struggle with singing. One would think that Priests at least should be trained in singing as many parts of the Mass is sung but many sound untrained.
Most of the Priests seem to be non-musicians.
I am in no way trying to be disredpectful. All I am interested in is the reason why many Priests struggle with music. What is going on?
Not many Priests study church music?
And those who are good at music often don't consider Priesthood?


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 Post subject: Re: Question on Priests
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:39 pm 
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I would say that most priests I know sing fairly well, but there are some who don't.

There are classes on music in seminary, but there is so much else that has to be covered that a guy who couldn't sing before he entered probably can't when he's done either.

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 Post subject: Re: Question on Priests
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:08 pm 
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There is no amount of training that can turn a bad so singer into a good one, if you don't have a good singing voice, and don't have the inherent talent, you will never be able to sing, no matter how much training or technical music knowledge you might have.

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 Post subject: Re: Question on Priests
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:46 pm 
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I agree with Doom. :shock:


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 Post subject: Re: Question on Priests
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 6:02 pm 
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:BAN

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 Post subject: Re: Question on Priests
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:09 pm 
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:bag


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 Post subject: Re: Question on Priests
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:31 pm 
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Doom wrote:
There is no amount of training that can turn a bad so singer into a good one, if you don't have a good singing voice, and don't have the inherent talent, you will never be able to sing, no matter how much training or technical music knowledge you might have.

My friends who sing well say it's practice.

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 Post subject: Re: Question on Priests
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:42 pm 
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Jack3 wrote:
Doom wrote:
There is no amount of training that can turn a bad so singer into a good one, if you don't have a good singing voice, and don't have the inherent talent, you will never be able to sing, no matter how much training or technical music knowledge you might have.

My friends who sing well say it's practice.


For one who has talent, yes. But no amount of practice can make someone without talent into a good singer.

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 Post subject: Re: Question on Priests
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:40 pm 
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Jack3 wrote:
Doom wrote:
There is no amount of training that can turn a bad so singer into a good one, if you don't have a good singing voice, and don't have the inherent talent, you will never be able to sing, no matter how much training or technical music knowledge you might have.

My friends who sing well say it's practice.


I sing well. I don't practice, unless my band is learning a new song. I sing high harmony, and I have to find my place in the chord stack, instantly. I also have to be able to anticipate the chord progression. I often sing harmony to songs I've never heard before, onstage. We don't have written arrangements to look at, I'm the only band member who can read music. We have what we call fake books, with nothing more than the chords written above the lyrics. I learned to sing harmony by listening to bluegrass recordings. The musicians don't even have fake books. If it's a song they don't know, they're told the key, then they listen to where the singer is going with the melody. Sometimes there are off chords. I play piano, mandolin, rhythm guitar, and ukulele - just basic stuff. I was classically trained in piano, and not a bit of what I learned is of any use in any other style of music.

Singers can get better with practice and voice exercises, but it isn't necessary to be able to sing well, if you have an ear for music. I know some pretty bad singers, and practice will not ever make them anything other than slightly less awful. Maybe. You don't have to be born with the talent to sing, it can be developed along with an ear for music. If you can't hear the patterns and nuances of the music, you can't sing or play, no matter how hard you train or practice.


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 Post subject: Re: Question on Priests
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:26 pm 
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"Talent" is an ambiguous word. Certain skills are needed to sing, such as the ability to hold a pitch and the ability to recognize and match intervals. People who can't do that are called tone-deaf, though I believe there are those who say even they can be taught.

Anyone who isn't tone-deaf can probably be helped some, but extensive work is really not feasible in the course of seminary studies, which are jammed full (maybe too full) the way it is.

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 Post subject: Re: Question on Priests
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:41 am 
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I was very tone-deaf and have come a long way. Of course seminaries can't do all that, but my point is that it's not impossible even in principle.

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 Post subject: Re: Question on Priests
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:07 am 
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ingenting wrote:
Why is that so few Priests are musicians?
Because most people aren't musicians. To be a musician doesn't just mean that you can sing well.

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 Post subject: Re: Question on Priests
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:21 am 
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It seems that people don't take the musical part of Liturgy as serious as other parts.
Being a musical guy myself I often take the music at Mass very serious. I mean, I really do focus on it but then I am learning to play the organ.
So music is less important than I think it is? I am giving it a much higher status than it should have?
I have seen videos with Priests who are trained organists but it is rare. Is it hard to be both a Priest and a organist?
I mean, many Priests are teachers of intelectual subjets so why would it be harder for them to become church musicians?


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 Post subject: Re: Question on Priests
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:25 am 
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I doubt there are many priests who have time to play organ anymore. Usually priests are running from place to place on Sunday to celebrate Mass.

A priest has so much else to do, much of which only a priest can do, that it doesn't make sense to devote himself to doing what a lay person can do.

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 Post subject: Re: Question on Priests
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:42 pm 
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The other problem is that few people are raised with decent music

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 Post subject: Re: Question on Priests
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:50 pm 
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Of all the priests I have heard in my lifetime....95% could sing in tune, and chant well.

They don't have to have a voice like an opera singer to do that.

And, I knew priests who could play piano and guitar very well. (At Christmas time, for the children.)


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 Post subject: Re: Question on Priests
PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:57 am 
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ingenting wrote:
I have seen videos with Priests who are trained organists but it is rare. Is it hard to be both a Priest and a organist?
Of course it is. To be a properly trained organist you need 3-4 years of formal education and years and years of dedicated playing.

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 Post subject: Re: Question on Priests
PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:57 am 
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What I am refering to is this:
We have Priests here in Sweden who work as teachers in a Catholic school, Newmaninstitutet.
They are teaching Theology and Philosophy of religion and simmilar subjects. If Priests can have time being teachers then they should have time being organists?
At least George Ratzinger had time for music.
Why is it more important for Priests to study Theology than music?
I mean, Theology is important but having a sense of Liturgy is crucial. I am very much into the aestethical of the Mass.
Do aestetics have less status than Theology?
I really feel that people might neglect the study of certain subjects. Is Theology so important that Priest can neglect the study of eg singing in order to get more time for theology. This is why I like the Benedictines. They often have a better sense of Liturgy.
Ultimately the person who understands Liturgy is the oetson living a holy life.


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 Post subject: Re: Question on Priests
PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:13 am 
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Theology does indeed have a role in the sense of the liturgy. Our worship should be in spirit and truth.

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 Post subject: Re: Question on Priests
PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:57 am 
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Quote:
Is Theology so important that Priest can neglect the study of eg singing in order to get more time for theology.
Yes.

One of the many unfortunate aspects of modern liturgy is that it forces the priest into the role of star and central performer. It shouldn't matter whether or not the priest sings well because the Mass isn't about him and how well he does things.

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