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Baptism: An ordinance
http://forums.avemariaradio.net/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=167923
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Author:  Petronius [ Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Baptism: An ordinance

In the Roman Catholic Church Baptism is a Sacrament. Is Baptism also an ordinance in the Catholic Church?

Author:  Obi-Wan Kenobi [ Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Baptism: An ordinance

I'm not familiar with the term "ordinance" in this context. What do you mean by it?

Author:  Doom [ Sun Feb 11, 2018 7:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Baptism: An ordinance

Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
I'm not familiar with the term "ordinance" in this context. What do you mean by it?


That's the Calvinist term since they don't believe in the concept of 'sacraments.'

Author:  Obi-Wan Kenobi [ Sun Feb 11, 2018 7:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Baptism: An ordinance

I'm wondering what he thinks it might mean in a Catholic context.

Author:  Petronius [ Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Baptism: An ordinance

Is not ordinance an equivalent of sacrament?

Author:  Obi-Wan Kenobi [ Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Baptism: An ordinance

Catholic theology doesn't use the word "ordinance," and I'm a little reluctant to say they're the same thing because of associations you might bring with you from previous use of the word.

Author:  ThomisticCajunAggie [ Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Baptism: An ordinance

Ordinance could mean "something we are required to do" and in that sense, I suppose baptism could be called an ordinance.

However, I think it would be a bad idea for Catholics (especially American Catholics) to use that terminology, because it is used in evangelical contexts to mean "something we do because Jesus told us to do it" which they use to distinguish it from more classical positions on the sacramental graces conferred in baptism (or communion).

Author:  Petronius [ Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Baptism: An ordinance

This speaker at a Baptist church stated the Lord's Supper is an ordinance. He said the term sacrament is not found in Scripture.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GY0IA-OHIcI

Author:  Doom [ Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Baptism: An ordinance

Petronius wrote:
This speaker at a Baptist church stated the Lord's Supper is an ordinance. He said the term sacrament is not found in Scripture.


If that is the standard, the word 'ordinance' is not in scripture either. At any rate, the reason why the word 'sacrament' is not in the Bible is that 'sacrament' is a Latin word, and the New Testament is written in Greek. However, the Greek equivalent of the word 'sacrament' is 'mysterion', and that word is used several times in the New Testament, as is the word 'Eucharist'

Author:  TreeBeard [ Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Baptism: An ordinance

One problem with objecting to explaining the Bible by the use of words not found in the Bible is that one could then argue that a sermon should only contain words found in the Bible.

(Is that a run on sentence?)

Author:  Obi-Wan Kenobi [ Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Baptism: An ordinance

One of the objections from orthodox parties to the use of "homoousios" was that it wasn't in the Bible.

Author:  Doom [ Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Baptism: An ordinance

If you limit yourself to words that are in the Bible, you are going to have a very limited theological vocabulary.

Author:  Light of the East [ Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Baptism: An ordinance

Petronius wrote:
This speaker at a Baptist church stated the Lord's Supper is an ordinance. He said the term sacrament is not found in Scripture.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GY0IA-OHIcI


This is because he is "sola scriptura" and wants the Bible to say everything and only those things which should be believed. I think it would be fun to ask him where it says in the Bible to use Welch's grape juice and crackers for communion. Or where it describes what kind of suit a pastor should wear. Or where it prohibits going to the movies or dancing?

His problem is that he doesn't understand covenant principles at all and therefore does not understand the term "sacramentum" which means "oath" in Latin. We make covenant with Christ Jesus our Lord by taking "oaths" (sacramentums). This is one of the five working principles of a covenant:

1. Transcendence - the greater offers covenant to the lesser

2. Hierarchy - who is in charge here?

3. Ethics - what are the rules of this relationship?

4. Oaths and Sanctions - Vows to keep the ethics and blessings for obedience, curses for disobedience.

5. Succession - the covenant goes on from generation to generation.

If he learns these, he will understand sacraments.

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