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 Post subject: Chin Patens
PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 7:34 pm 
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Today is a symbol of traditionalism, but less than 100 years ago was "tolerated but not encouraged"? http://blog.adw.org/2011/11/how-something-we-consider-solidly-traditional-was-once-thought-as-strangely-progressive-barely-to-be-tolerated-a-brief-study-of-the-communion-chin-paten/

TLM and EF attendees, care to comment?

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 Post subject: Re: Chin Patens
PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 10:42 pm 
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The communion plate (I have NEVER heard it could a "chin paten") is novel

But the ADW post is misleading. The old rite required the use of the communion cloth or housling cloth. Further, in Solemn Mass (Mass as is actually normative in the Missal, though less normative in practice in the early 20th century), the subdeacon holds the actual paten under the chin of every communicant.

In laziness many housling clothes were permanently attached to the rail and would simply be flipped over, risking particles going all over the place. Since Solemn Mass was not always normative, the practice, required by the rubrics, of the subdeacon holding the actual patent was imitated by the use of a communion place, misleadingly and somewhat wrongly called a paten in common parlance

BTW actual paten- http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0210/1 ... 1392604518 It is the plate there

Communion plate- http://www.aquinasandmore.com/images/it ... 0421lg.jpg

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 Post subject: Re: Chin Patens
PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 10:43 pm 
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The communion cloth

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-LobmB6licSk/T ... munion.png

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 Post subject: Re: Chin Patens
PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 12:52 pm 
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Paladin
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Stomachosus wrote:
The communion plate (I have NEVER heard it could a "chin paten") is novel

But the ADW post is misleading. The old rite required the use of the communion cloth or housling cloth. Further, in Solemn Mass (Mass as is actually normative in the Missal, though less normative in practice in the early 20th century), the subdeacon holds the actual paten under the chin of every communicant.

In laziness many housling clothes were permanently attached to the rail and would simply be flipped over, risking particles going all over the place. Since Solemn Mass was not always normative, the practice, required by the rubrics, of the subdeacon holding the actual patent was imitated by the use of a communion place, misleadingly and somewhat wrongly called a paten in common parlance

BTW actual paten- http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0210/1 ... 1392604518 It is the plate there

Communion plate- http://www.aquinasandmore.com/images/it ... 0421lg.jpg


Is the proper usage of the paten in Solemn Mass and the housling cloth in the 1962(61?) rubrics?

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 Post subject: Re: Chin Patens
PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 2:32 pm 
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I don't see anything in the 1962 rubrics regarding a communion plate for the laity's communion... only the paten used by the priest at the altar.

For that matter, I don't see anything in the rubrics related to the laity at all..


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 Post subject: Re: Chin Patens
PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 5:09 pm 
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Alexandros wrote:
Stomachosus wrote:
The communion plate (I have NEVER heard it could a "chin paten") is novel

But the ADW post is misleading. The old rite required the use of the communion cloth or housling cloth. Further, in Solemn Mass (Mass as is actually normative in the Missal, though less normative in practice in the early 20th century), the subdeacon holds the actual paten under the chin of every communicant.

In laziness many housling clothes were permanently attached to the rail and would simply be flipped over, risking particles going all over the place. Since Solemn Mass was not always normative, the practice, required by the rubrics, of the subdeacon holding the actual patent was imitated by the use of a communion place, misleadingly and somewhat wrongly called a paten in common parlance

BTW actual paten- http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0210/1 ... 1392604518 It is the plate there

Communion plate- http://www.aquinasandmore.com/images/it ... 0421lg.jpg


Is the proper usage of the paten in Solemn Mass and the housling cloth in the 1962(61?) rubrics?

Yes. One would have to consult the Caerimoniale Episcoporum for some details I believe.

The 1962 Missals also still mention the "little torch" or elevation candle to be used at low Mass, but which is never done saved by Dominicans.

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 Post subject: Re: Chin Patens
PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 6:03 pm 
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Communion plates are mentioned in article 118 of General Instruction of the Roman Missal. That's the latest edition of the Roman Missal, Novo Ordo.

I've used them in Portugal as they will help catch parts of the hosts that the faithful receive.

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 Post subject: Re: Chin Patens
PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:44 pm 
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Paladin
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Stomachosus wrote:
Alexandros wrote:
Stomachosus wrote:
The communion plate (I have NEVER heard it could a "chin paten") is novel

But the ADW post is misleading. The old rite required the use of the communion cloth or housling cloth. Further, in Solemn Mass (Mass as is actually normative in the Missal, though less normative in practice in the early 20th century), the subdeacon holds the actual paten under the chin of every communicant.

In laziness many housling clothes were permanently attached to the rail and would simply be flipped over, risking particles going all over the place. Since Solemn Mass was not always normative, the practice, required by the rubrics, of the subdeacon holding the actual patent was imitated by the use of a communion place, misleadingly and somewhat wrongly called a paten in common parlance

BTW actual paten- http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0210/1 ... 1392604518 It is the plate there

Communion plate- http://www.aquinasandmore.com/images/it ... 0421lg.jpg


Is the proper usage of the paten in Solemn Mass and the housling cloth in the 1962(61?) rubrics?

Yes. One would have to consult the Caerimoniale Episcoporum for some details I believe.

The 1962 Missals also still mention the "little torch" or elevation candle to be used at low Mass, but which is never done saved by Dominicans.


Thanks. What's the "little torch?"

My parish priest, who is known for following the rubrics like a hawk, does exactly what you say concerning the communion cloth; attaching it to the altar railing and flipping it - was this rubric changed or he is simply mistaken when he allows this???

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 Post subject: Re: Chin Patens
PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:12 pm 
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I have been to a Roman Catholic church where the Mass was said in Latin. The patens were used.


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 Post subject: Re: Chin Patens
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:38 pm 
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Petronius wrote:
I have been to a Roman Catholic church where the Mass was said in Latin. The patens were used.

They're not patens. The paten is used by the priest at the altar and, if the Mass is solemn, held under the chins of communicants by the subdeacon. But if a server accompanies the priest then a communion plate is used.

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 Post subject: Re: Chin Patens
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:41 pm 
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EWTN Mass uses them.

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