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 Post subject: Bringing up the gifts
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:30 pm 
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In Mass, why are the bread and wine brought up to the priest by people from the congregation? Why aren't they just kept near the priest for him to get himself or something?

Sometimes when there are altar boys they bring up the bread and wine from a side table, but I've also seen many Masses with altar servers in which lay people still bring up the gifts from the back of the church.

So, what's up with that? Is there any reason why this is done?

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 Post subject: Re: Bringing up the gifts
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:32 pm 
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To add to that question, why does it seem like the people who bring them up at my church are never dressed appropriately?! :rant

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 Post subject: Re: Bringing up the gifts
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:33 pm 
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I've seen girls in strapless tops bring them up before. :verymad:

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 Post subject: Re: Bringing up the gifts
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:36 pm 
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In the EF, the gifts aren't brought up, and they aren't at any of the daily Masses I celebrate (though I've seen it done). It's meant to be a visible sign of the congregation's making an offering of themselves in conjunction with the Holy Sacrifice.

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 Post subject: Re: Bringing up the gifts
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:39 pm 
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If the people chosen to bring up the gifts aren't dressed appropriately, it's because the usher did a poor job selecting the people to bring them up.

As to why this is done... no idea.

Perhaps it has something to do with tradition - no idea if it should be a T or t. :) I'm wondering if it is done this way because of how it was done in the OT. The offerings were brought to the Tent of the Lord's Presence and later on the Temple by different people than those that actually made the sacrifices. One group were the priests. Another gathered the offerings and presented them to the priests, another was in charge of the music, etc. Perhaps we do this because of how it was done then? Just guessing.

Lisa


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 Post subject: Re: Bringing up the gifts
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:40 pm 
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Lisa1515 wrote:
If the people chosen to bring up the gifts aren't dressed appropriately, it's because the usher did a poor job selecting the people to bring them up.
Sometimes it's the family members of the person for whom the Mass is being offered who do it, so the ushers don't have a choice.

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 Post subject: Re: Bringing up the gifts
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:41 pm 
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Quote:
It's meant to be a visible sign of the congregation's making an offering of themselves in conjunction with the Holy Sacrifice.
I was thinking it was probably something like that. The whole "made by human hands" thing.

They're brought up by people at daily Mass at college. I sit sort of near the table where they're kept, so if no one else goes for it, I'm usually left to bring up one or both.

On that topic, sometimes one person brings up both, and sometimes there are two people, one for the bread and one for the wine. Are both of these correct?

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 Post subject: Re: Bringing up the gifts
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:43 pm 
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Puppi wrote:
Quote:
It's meant to be a visible sign of the congregation's making an offering of themselves in conjunction with the Holy Sacrifice.
I was thinking it was probably something like that. The whole "made by human hands" thing.

They're brought up by people at daily Mass at college. I sit sort of near the table where they're kept, so if no one else goes for it, I'm usually left to bring up one or both.

On that topic, sometimes one person brings up both, and sometimes there are two people, one for the bread and one for the wine. Are both of these correct?

Sometimes it's a whole flock of people (especially at funerals). It doesn't matter.

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 Post subject: Re: Bringing up the gifts
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:47 pm 
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Cool. Thanks for the answers.

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 Post subject: Re: Bringing up the gifts
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:50 pm 
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One of the things I complained to my husband about him not going to Mass is that I'll never get picked to bring up the gifts because I know that the Ushers are looking for families (that is, when it isn't already decided like on Scout Sunday where it would be 2 scouts, etc). I was usually in attendance alone. Funny thing is that after I told him that, I attended a different parish daily Mass where I was chosen to bring up the gifts. I believe that I was chosen because I was the only person there with my family, my daughter. Everyone else did not have any family with them. I was thrilled!!! Then, shortly after that, we were at church together and we were asked to bring up the gifts as I knew the usher... and yes, we were all appropriately dressed. :) I was so happy. My husband was not as he was uncomfortable not being Catholic and not knowing what to do. He did fine. :)

I waited about 35 years to be able to bring the gifts up to the altar! Yay! I finally was picked. :)

Lisa


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 Post subject: Re: Bringing up the gifts
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:51 pm 
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i've seen worse than inappropriately-dressed gift-bearers. last night there was a girl doing the readings wearing something which, had she not had to bow, might not have been too bad ... we're not talking short short short skirt here ... but it was a little higher than I would have liked ... and sure enough when she bent over to bow, one could see a little more than one would have liked to have seen ... of course i closed my eyes

and then I've seen EMHC's dressed in skin-tight jeans or in short skirts and/or spaghetti-straps ... of course, this was all at the Newman Center... :nooo:

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 Post subject: Re: Bringing up the gifts
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:56 pm 
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I was nervous the first time I had to do it. It was for a large Mass celebrated by Francis Cardinal George. There were at least a dozen priests there as well. I had only been attending Mass for about a month at that point, and I never paid enough attention to the details of what people do when to know what exactly was expected of me.

It was fine, though. The Cardinal gave me and the other gift bearer quick blessings, which was nice. :)

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"Take it as a certain sign that your charity is not genuine if your words, no matter how true, are not charitable." --St Francis de Sales

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 Post subject: Re: Bringing up the gifts
PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 3:13 pm 
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What are you supposed to do after you give the gifts to the priest and he thanks you etc. Bow or genuflect?

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 Post subject: Re: Bringing up the gifts
PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 3:21 pm 
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I was taught to bow to the altar during Mass as opposed to genuflect to the Tabernacle. I don't know if that's correct, though. :)

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"Take it as a certain sign that your charity is not genuine if your words, no matter how true, are not charitable." --St Francis de Sales

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 Post subject: Re: Bringing up the gifts
PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 3:37 pm 
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Bow is correct.

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 Post subject: Re: Bringing up the gifts
PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 5:24 pm 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Bow is correct.


That's what I thought.

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 Post subject: Re: Bringing up the gifts
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 1:33 am 
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Pity the poor ushers. In some parishes people are more than willing to bring up the gifts. But in most places, people are very reluctant to agree when asked. Ushers have told me that they must ask several people before one agrees.

In my view, the people who bring up the gifts should be representative of the parish as a whole, at least when viewed over time. They should be diverse in age, and shouldn't always be families. If the parish is diverse ethnically and racially, then they should be diverse. This brings home the symbolism of the entire people bringing forward the gifts, that once transformed at the consecration, are then received back by the people as the true Body and Blood of the Lord. Thus, that which is given is poor bread and wine; that which is received is the priceless Body and Blood.

The real question is not what the gift bearers are wearing. The real question is why people come to Mass dressed like they are going to a NASCAR race. My favorite outrage was a person who was well clad, but wearing a NASCAR jacket where one of the team sponsors, announced in bold letters on her back, was Viagra!


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 Post subject: Re: Bringing up the gifts
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 1:43 am 
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Fr. Matteo wrote:
My favorite outrage was a person who was well clad, but wearing a NASCAR jacket where one of the team sponsors, announced in bold letters on her back, was Viagra!

I know that that was extremely inappropriate and disrespectful, but I must confess to a bit of a laugh at reading that. People are impossible to embarrass these days. I'm sure they didn't give two seconds of thought as to why they shouldn't wear the jacket of their favourite driver. I hope there was at least a few dropped jaws from those who saw it.

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 Post subject: Re: Bringing up the gifts
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 8:03 am 
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(These thoughts are all a bit jumbled, it being early in the morning...)

The present GIRM says: "The offerings are then brought forward. It is praiseworthy for the bread and wine to be presented by the faithful. They are then accepted at an appropriate place by the priest or the deacon and carried to the altar. Even though the faithful no longer bring from their own possessions the bread and wine intended for the liturgy as in the past, nevertheless the rite of carrying up the offerings still retains its force and its spiritual significance." (GIRM 73)

While the "presentation of the gifts" is not present in the Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite, it was present in earlier centuries. It is mentioned briefly by St. Justin Martyr (cf. Apologia I, c. LXV, LXVII). Not only would bread and wine be brought forward, but other contributions as well, for the good of the local church and service to widows and the poor. The Lavabo (or the Lava me in the Ordinary Form) would not merely have a spiritual application, then; it would also be necessary after the priest had handled the various gifts brought forward. The Roman Canon might have a reference to the presence of gifts other than bread and wine near or at the altar: "Per quem haec omnia, Domine, semper bona creas, sanctificas, vivificas, benedicis, et praestas nobis." ("Through him you give us all these gifts. You fill them with life and goodness, you bless them and make them holy.")

The bread and wine used to be an actual physical contribution of the faithful. As the preparation of the bread and wine for the Mass became "institutionalized", that was no longer the case. Nowadays, we do provide monetary support which provides the bread and wine, so it is our contribution in a way. But the presentation is an EXTERNAL manifestation of an INTERNAL reality, the faithful offering themselves and their own spiritual sacrifices. (Sadly, the singing of a song during this part of the Mass usually completely distracts the people from the true 'full, conscious, and active participation' called for here. Also, the present -- lame-duck -- translation of the Orate, fratres masks the distinction between the priest's contribution to the sacrifice and the faithful's.)

The three proper prayers -- the Collect, Super Oblata ("Secret" in the EF), and the Post-Communion Prayer -- come at the end of the three processions -- entrance, offertory, and communion.

That's all for now. Sorry for being so late to the game.

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 Post subject: Re: Bringing up the gifts
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:18 pm 
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welcome to the board yammi... why don't you go introduce yourself in the welcome and introduction forum... and thanks for bringing back a thread started by our sweet dominicatella... it's good to see her name again ... sure hope she's remembering to pray for us :cloud9:

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