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 Post subject: Re: New crucifix for our new church (pics)
PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 12:28 pm 
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ajw333 wrote:
Signum Crucis wrote:
Angels are neither male nor female.
Gabriel appears to be like a man;

Dan 8:15 "When I, Daniel, had seen the vision, I sought to understand it. And behold, there stood before me one having the appearance of a man. And I heard a man's voice between the banks of the Ulai, and it called, “Gabriel, make this man understand the vision.” So he came near where I stood. And when he came, I was frightened and fell on my face. But he said to me, “Understand, O son of man, that the vision is for the time of the end.”


he appears to be like a man ... but he isn't a man ... he's an angel

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 Post subject: Re: New crucifix for our new church (pics)
PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:18 am 
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Angels are pure spirit. They do not have bodies. As pure spirits, they do not have gender. However, when God chooses to send an angel in Scripture, the angel appeared in bodily form, in order that the angel may accomplish the mission that God intended for it. The bodily form in the Scriptures was male, but that is not the angel's essence.

It is wonderful that your parish is taking liturgical art seriously, and has had something commissioned. There are many, many wonderful artists doing liturgical art. Unfortunately, many parishes just order out of a catalog - and it all looks the same, and isn't very good. For not too much more money (and sometimes less), a parish can get something unique, that is actually good art.


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 Post subject: Re: New crucifix for our new church (pics)
PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 11:32 pm 
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matteo d'basio wrote:
Angels are pure spirit. They do not have bodies. As pure spirits, they do not have gender. However, when God chooses to send an angel in Scripture, the angel appeared in bodily form, in order that the angel may accomplish the mission that God intended for it. The bodily form in the Scriptures was male, but that is not the angel's essence.
Do angels look different in Heaven than they do when they come to earth? If so, what do they look like in heaven and why do they still have masculine names?

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 Post subject: Re: New crucifix for our new church (pics)
PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 6:48 am 
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A spirit doesn't have a body, so yes they look different when they appear to humans. They take on a form that humans can see. Their names reflect their function, as I pointed out already. Gabriel is God's representative, which is why the name "who is like God" is chosen. Michael is the warrior, hence the reference to strength. Raphael is a healer, which we see in the book of Tobit.


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 Post subject: Re: New crucifix for our new church (pics)
PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 7:00 am 
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Signum Crucis wrote:
A spirit doesn't have a body, so yes they look different when they appear to humans. They take on a form that humans can see. Their names reflect their function, as I pointed out already. Gabriel is God's representative, which is why the name "who is like God" is chosen. Michael is the warrior, hence the reference to strength. Raphael is a healer, which we see in the book of Tobit.
In heaven, the angels will be "solid," they won't be ghost-like wraiths that float around. They will have a physical, yet glorified body that is real to the touch, just as Jesus' body was, after he was resurrected. To say that the angels are pure spirit appears to mean that they are not physically real. Is this how you see it?

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 Post subject: Re: New crucifix for our new church (pics)
PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 10:03 am 
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ajw333 wrote:
In heaven, the angels will be "solid," they won't be ghost-like wraiths that float around. They will have a physical, yet glorified body that is real to the touch, just as Jesus' body was, after he was resurrected. To say that the angels are pure spirit appears to mean that they are not physically real. Is this how you see it?


I wonder if you shouldn't start a new thread for this, ajw. Perhaps in the Lyceum?

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 Post subject: Re: New crucifix for our new church (pics)
PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 10:06 am 
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Quote:
In heaven, the angels will be "solid," they won't be ghost-like wraiths that float around. They will have a physical, yet glorified body that is real to the touch, just as Jesus' body was, after he was resurrected. To say that the angels are pure spirit appears to mean that they are not physically real. Is this how you see it?




You assume that heaven is physical
and that physical is the desired state!

and yes, this should be a new post!

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 Post subject: Re: New crucifix for our new church (pics)
PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 11:44 am 
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By the way, FotBG, that is a lovely crucifix.

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During His trials Our Lord would not respond to the chief priests (Mt 14:61), or Herod (Lk 23:9) or Pilate (Jn 19:9). Words had failed. All that could penetrate those hardened hearts was the witness of divine love, the offering of His life to the Father. So also for us — when words fail the greatest way to “win” an argument is by acts of love. - Fr. Paul Scalia

There is no law about nougatine. - Chef Stephane Glacier


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 Post subject: Re: New crucifix for our new church (pics)
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 12:58 am 
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ajw333 wrote:
In heaven, the angels will be "solid," they won't be ghost-like wraiths that float around. They will have a physical, yet glorified body that is real to the touch, just as Jesus' body was, after he was resurrected.

Sez WHO????

This is stuff you are making up on your own, without any authority, and -- more to the point -- without any foundation whatsoever. It was not of the nature of angels to have physical bodies, it is not now of the nature of angels to have physical bodies, and it is at best speculation, and at worst gross error (i almost said heresy), to say that they will have physical bodies in the future.

Quote:
To say that the angels are pure spirit appears to mean that they are not physically real. Is this how you see it?

To think that to say a being is purely spritual being suggests it is not "real" indicates that you do not understand what "reality" is. What are you that you don't find the idea of purely spiritual existence completely familar, and a part of orthodox Christian belief -- a Mormon, perhaps?

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 Post subject: Re: New crucifix for our new church (pics)
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 4:46 am 
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Custos wrote:
ajw333 wrote:
In heaven, the angels will be "solid," they won't be ghost-like wraiths that float around. They will have a physical, yet glorified body that is real to the touch, just as Jesus' body was, after he was resurrected.

Sez WHO????

This is stuff you are making up on your own, without any authority, and -- more to the point -- without any foundation whatsoever. It was not of the nature of angels to have physical bodies, it is not now of the nature of angels to have physical bodies, and it is at best speculation, and at worst gross error (i almost said heresy), to say that they will have physical bodies in the future.

Quote:
To say that the angels are pure spirit appears to mean that they are not physically real. Is this how you see it?

To think that to say a being is purely spritual being suggests it is not "real" indicates that you do not understand what "reality" is. What are you that you don't find the idea of purely spiritual existence completely familar, and a part of orthodox Christian belief -- a Mormon, perhaps?
We've moved this thread here. I've addressed most of this in my recent posts.

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 Post subject: Re: New crucifix for our new church (pics)
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 7:03 am 
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HeyAgain wrote:
By the way, FotBG, that is a lovely crucifix.



I agree, beautiful!

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