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 Post subject: 2nd Confiteor...it can be used
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 3:25 pm 
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Sons of Thunder
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Many have suggested that we cannot use the 2nd Confiteor in the old Mass. For those interested Fr. Scott of the Society of St. John Cantius cleared it up for me. Here was his response:

#1

"In pre-1962 Missals, in the "Ritus servandus in celebratione Missae, X, 6," this Confiteor is stipulated. In the same section in the 1962 Missal it is not mentioned, but nowhere in the rubrics is it forbidden. Apart from this omission the ordinary of the Mass was not changed."

The Missal of 1962 - A Rock of Stability
by Michael Davies - Spring 2001

#2

Klaus Gamber, a favorite theologian and liturgist of Pope Benedict XVI, wrote in his critique of the reforms that the second Confiteor was a legitimate option in both the 1962 and 1965 versions of the Missal, even though they were not specifically mentioned.

#3

Regarding the question of the second (or, if you like, third) Confiteor in the 1962 rite, in the Ponticale Romanum (Marietti, editio iuxta typicam, 1962) there is a second Confiteor.

#4

When the Confiteor was dropped as part of Blessed John XXIII's revised rubrics in 1960, permission was given shortly after by the Sacred Congregation of Rites to continue the second Confiteor, where it was an established custom. It said, I believe, that this practice could be tolerated. That is the permission that has continued to operate under the indult.

#5

The Roman Ritual as late as 1964 still provides for the use of the Confiteor before the reception of Holy Communion by the faithful as an option.

#6

When our parish began to offer the Traditional Latin Mass in 1989 at the request of Cardinal Bernadin, the Cardinal asked us to consult with Msgr. Charles N. Meter (Secretary of the Commission for Sacred Music, president of the American Federation of Pueri cantores, director of several diocesan choirs) in order to restore the use of the 1962 Missal as it was observed here in the Archdiocese of Chicago. In the 50's and 60's Msgr. Meter was very much involved with the guidance of the Sacred Liturgy in the Archdiocese of Chicago. Msgr. Meter recalled that the parishes in our Archdiocese never discontinued the use of the 2nd Confiteor. He mentioned that the Sacred Congregation for Rites, at the time of the revision of the rubrics under John XXIII, clarified that while the 2nd Confiteor was no longer required it was permitted. Thus it is a legitimate option in th '62 liturgy. At the time of the re-introduction of the Traditional Mass in our parish Msgr. Meter confirmed this with the Ecclesia Dei commission which simply re-stated the previous decision of the S.C.R.

God bless

Fr Scott

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 Post subject: Re: 2nd Confiteor...it can be used
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:23 pm 
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Master
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Pro Ecclesia Dei wrote:
Many have suggested that we cannot use the 2nd Confiteor in the old Mass. For those interested Fr. Scott of the Society of St. John Cantius cleared it up for me. Here was his response:

#1

"In pre-1962 Missals, in the "Ritus servandus in celebratione Missae, X, 6," this Confiteor is stipulated. In the same section in the 1962 Missal it is not mentioned, but nowhere in the rubrics is it forbidden. Apart from this omission the ordinary of the Mass was not changed."

The Missal of 1962 - A Rock of Stability
by Michael Davies - Spring 2001

#2

Klaus Gamber, a favorite theologian and liturgist of Pope Benedict XVI, wrote in his critique of the reforms that the second Confiteor was a legitimate option in both the 1962 and 1965 versions of the Missal, even though they were not specifically mentioned.

#3

Regarding the question of the second (or, if you like, third) Confiteor in the 1962 rite, in the Ponticale Romanum (Marietti, editio iuxta typicam, 1962) there is a second Confiteor.

#4

When the Confiteor was dropped as part of Blessed John XXIII's revised rubrics in 1960, permission was given shortly after by the Sacred Congregation of Rites to continue the second Confiteor, where it was an established custom. It said, I believe, that this practice could be tolerated. That is the permission that has continued to operate under the indult.

#5

The Roman Ritual as late as 1964 still provides for the use of the Confiteor before the reception of Holy Communion by the faithful as an option.

#6

When our parish began to offer the Traditional Latin Mass in 1989 at the request of Cardinal Bernadin, the Cardinal asked us to consult with Msgr. Charles N. Meter (Secretary of the Commission for Sacred Music, president of the American Federation of Pueri cantores, director of several diocesan choirs) in order to restore the use of the 1962 Missal as it was observed here in the Archdiocese of Chicago. In the 50's and 60's Msgr. Meter was very much involved with the guidance of the Sacred Liturgy in the Archdiocese of Chicago. Msgr. Meter recalled that the parishes in our Archdiocese never discontinued the use of the 2nd Confiteor. He mentioned that the Sacred Congregation for Rites, at the time of the revision of the rubrics under John XXIII, clarified that while the 2nd Confiteor was no longer required it was permitted. Thus it is a legitimate option in th '62 liturgy. At the time of the re-introduction of the Traditional Mass in our parish Msgr. Meter confirmed this with the Ecclesia Dei commission which simply re-stated the previous decision of the S.C.R.

God bless

Fr Scott


Bumping a 10 year old post !!

Recently my friend sent a letter from the ED Commision saying the the Second Confiteor was never to be allowed.

Has this even been rescinded?

Attachment:
Capture.PNG


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Have mercy on me, O Lord, for I am weak: heal me, O Lord, for my bones are troubled.
All that the Father giveth to me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me, I will not cast out.
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 Post subject: Re: 2nd Confiteor...it can be used
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 11:40 pm 
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Sons of Thunder
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You would need to post the letter. Was it official? A private rescript? Etc

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 Post subject: Re: 2nd Confiteor...it can be used
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:04 pm 
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Pro Ecclesia Dei wrote:
You would need to post the letter. Was it official? A private rescript? Etc


The full letter is here

https://imgur.com/Bzn01Au

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Have mercy on me, O Lord, for I am weak: heal me, O Lord, for my bones are troubled.
All that the Father giveth to me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me, I will not cast out.
Tiber swim team '13


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 Post subject: Re: 2nd Confiteor...it can be used
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:36 pm 
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Sons of Thunder
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That letter is eleven years old. And is a private rescript. Seems the PCED had changed its mind. Considering the PCED around that time said the pre 1955 Holy Week was absolutely forbidden, but now allows it, who knows what they would say now.

As a private rescript it binds only the recipient, though others who reasonably believe they would get the same response may take it as directive

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 Post subject: Re: 2nd Confiteor...it can be used
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 10:20 am 
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It's odd how it was kept in Solemn Mass, but "removed" from Low Mass and Missa Cantata. Anyway, personally, I like to think of the 2nd/3rd confiteor as being prayed on behalf of the congregation rather than on the server's own behalf.

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 Post subject: Re: 2nd Confiteor...it can be used
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 10:32 am 
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Master
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Pro Ecclesia Dei wrote:
That letter is eleven years old. And is a private rescript. Seems the PCED had changed its mind. Considering the PCED around that time said the pre 1955 Holy Week was absolutely forbidden, but now allows it, who knows what they would say now.

As a private rescript it binds only the recipient, though others who reasonably believe they would get the same response may take it as directive


Does the Protocol number at the top imply it was not a simply private rescript?

Further; since it gives an instruction to instruct TLM communities who use the 2nd Confiteor mustn't we all take it as a directive

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Have mercy on me, O Lord, for I am weak: heal me, O Lord, for my bones are troubled.
All that the Father giveth to me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me, I will not cast out.
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 Post subject: Re: 2nd Confiteor...it can be used
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:19 am 
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Prodigal Son of Thunder
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ForeverFaithful wrote:
Does the Protocol number at the top imply it was not a simply private rescript?

No.

Quote:
Further; since it gives an instruction to instruct TLM communities who use the 2nd Confiteor mustn't we all take it as a directive

It gives an instruction to instruct to someone who has no authority to instruct, so again ... no.

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