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 Post subject: Baptism: An ordinance
PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:25 pm 
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In the Roman Catholic Church Baptism is a Sacrament. Is Baptism also an ordinance in the Catholic Church?


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 Post subject: Re: Baptism: An ordinance
PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:33 pm 
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I'm not familiar with the term "ordinance" in this context. What do you mean by it?

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 Post subject: Re: Baptism: An ordinance
PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 7:58 pm 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
I'm not familiar with the term "ordinance" in this context. What do you mean by it?


That's the Calvinist term since they don't believe in the concept of 'sacraments.'


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 Post subject: Re: Baptism: An ordinance
PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 7:59 pm 
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I'm wondering what he thinks it might mean in a Catholic context.

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 Post subject: Re: Baptism: An ordinance
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:37 pm 
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Is not ordinance an equivalent of sacrament?


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 Post subject: Re: Baptism: An ordinance
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:29 pm 
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Catholic theology doesn't use the word "ordinance," and I'm a little reluctant to say they're the same thing because of associations you might bring with you from previous use of the word.

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 Post subject: Re: Baptism: An ordinance
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:27 pm 
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Ordinance could mean "something we are required to do" and in that sense, I suppose baptism could be called an ordinance.

However, I think it would be a bad idea for Catholics (especially American Catholics) to use that terminology, because it is used in evangelical contexts to mean "something we do because Jesus told us to do it" which they use to distinguish it from more classical positions on the sacramental graces conferred in baptism (or communion).

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 Post subject: Re: Baptism: An ordinance
PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:43 pm 
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This speaker at a Baptist church stated the Lord's Supper is an ordinance. He said the term sacrament is not found in Scripture.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GY0IA-OHIcI


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 Post subject: Re: Baptism: An ordinance
PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:04 pm 
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Petronius wrote:
This speaker at a Baptist church stated the Lord's Supper is an ordinance. He said the term sacrament is not found in Scripture.


If that is the standard, the word 'ordinance' is not in scripture either. At any rate, the reason why the word 'sacrament' is not in the Bible is that 'sacrament' is a Latin word, and the New Testament is written in Greek. However, the Greek equivalent of the word 'sacrament' is 'mysterion', and that word is used several times in the New Testament, as is the word 'Eucharist'


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 Post subject: Re: Baptism: An ordinance
PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:18 pm 
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One problem with objecting to explaining the Bible by the use of words not found in the Bible is that one could then argue that a sermon should only contain words found in the Bible.

(Is that a run on sentence?)

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 Post subject: Re: Baptism: An ordinance
PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:51 pm 
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One of the objections from orthodox parties to the use of "homoousios" was that it wasn't in the Bible.

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 Post subject: Re: Baptism: An ordinance
PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:36 pm 
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If you limit yourself to words that are in the Bible, you are going to have a very limited theological vocabulary.


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 Post subject: Re: Baptism: An ordinance
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:30 pm 
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Petronius wrote:
This speaker at a Baptist church stated the Lord's Supper is an ordinance. He said the term sacrament is not found in Scripture.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GY0IA-OHIcI


This is because he is "sola scriptura" and wants the Bible to say everything and only those things which should be believed. I think it would be fun to ask him where it says in the Bible to use Welch's grape juice and crackers for communion. Or where it describes what kind of suit a pastor should wear. Or where it prohibits going to the movies or dancing?

His problem is that he doesn't understand covenant principles at all and therefore does not understand the term "sacramentum" which means "oath" in Latin. We make covenant with Christ Jesus our Lord by taking "oaths" (sacramentums). This is one of the five working principles of a covenant:

1. Transcendence - the greater offers covenant to the lesser

2. Hierarchy - who is in charge here?

3. Ethics - what are the rules of this relationship?

4. Oaths and Sanctions - Vows to keep the ethics and blessings for obedience, curses for disobedience.

5. Succession - the covenant goes on from generation to generation.

If he learns these, he will understand sacraments.


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