Login Register

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic Page 2 of 2   [ 38 posts ]   Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Anti-Chritian Practices
PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2020 8:16 pm 
Offline
Newbie
Newbie

Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:42 pm
Posts: 27
Religion: Christianity
Mrs. Timmy wrote:
The magi used their knowledge of astronomy, not astrology. They took the sudden appearance of a bright star as a sign from heaven (which it was). I’m oversimplifying greatly, but that’s the bottom line.


i thought astronomy was just observing the heavenly bodies and making calculations. so if i go out in the backyard tonight and observe certain patterns in the sky and use those patterns to predict a future event, the birth of my sisters kid and will the kid be a boy or girl , thats just normal everyday astronomy? with respect that doesnt sound like astronomy to me. but maybe i am wrong, i make mistakes all the time.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Anti-Chritian Practices
PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2020 8:48 pm 
Offline
Jedi Master
Jedi Master
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 9:55 am
Posts: 83048
Location: 1.5532386636 radians
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: 4th Degree KofC
It's not clear what the Magi saw or what system they used to interpret it.

Astrology as fortune-telling has the same problem as other forms of fortune-telling:

    2116 All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to "unveil" the future. Consulting horoscopes, astrology, palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of clairvoyance, and recourse to mediums all conceal a desire for power over time, history, and, in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone.
Catechism of the Catholic Church

The Magi weren't doing that; they saw something in the sky that told them about a present event.

_________________
Nos autem in nomine Domini Dei nostri

Need something to read?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Anti-Chritian Practices
PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2020 9:33 pm 
Offline
Newbie
Newbie

Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:42 pm
Posts: 27
Religion: Christianity
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
It's not clear what the Magi saw or what system they used to interpret it.

Astrology as fortune-telling has the same problem as other forms of fortune-telling:

    2116 All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to "unveil" the future. Consulting horoscopes, astrology, palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of clairvoyance, and recourse to mediums all conceal a desire for power over time, history, and, in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone.
Catechism of the Catholic Church

The Magi weren't doing that; they saw something in the sky that told them about a present event.


so if i want to look to the skies for a past event or present event its ok as long as i dont look for signs of future events?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Anti-Chritian Practices
PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2020 9:36 pm 
Offline
Jedi Master
Jedi Master
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 9:55 am
Posts: 83048
Location: 1.5532386636 radians
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: 4th Degree KofC
If you have reason to believe that doing so would be helpful.

_________________
Nos autem in nomine Domini Dei nostri

Need something to read?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Anti-Chritian Practices
PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2020 10:15 pm 
Offline
Newbie
Newbie

Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:42 pm
Posts: 27
Religion: Christianity
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
If you have reason to believe that doing so would be helpful.


i wouldnt know the first thing about it, in baptist churches we were taught those things were the devil. me personally i dont think they are. it seems like anything that could lead to personal revelation is off limits and we are told to read the bible, and nothing else. Jesus was taught by the Father, the 12 were taught by Jesus, it would be nice to have experience like that rather than just reading about it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Anti-Chritian Practices
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 10:26 am 
Offline
Citizen
Citizen

Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:25 am
Posts: 318
Religion: Catholic
Astrology is bad. I worked with someone who had a book about astrology unlike anything I'd seen before. It was divination. There was a formula involved that was quite complicated. When I asked him if there was anything to it, he said he thought there was.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Anti-Chritian Practices
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 12:16 pm 
Offline
Master
Master
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:22 pm
Posts: 1718
Location: Canada
Religion: la foi Catholique
Church Affiliations: K of C 4th Degree
jaybird wrote:
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
If you have reason to believe that doing so would be helpful.


i wouldnt know the first thing about it, in baptist churches we were taught those things were the devil. me personally i dont think they are. it seems like anything that could lead to personal revelation is off limits and we are told to read the bible, and nothing else. Jesus was taught by the Father, the 12 were taught by Jesus, it would be nice to have experience like that rather than just reading about it.


Another important difference is that the Wise Man had a prophecy which they expected to be fufilled.

"I shall see him, but not now: I shall behold him, but not near. A STAR SHALL RISE out of Jacob and a sceptre shall spring up from Israel: and shall strike the chiefs of Moab, and shall waste all the children of Seth." (Number 24:17)

So while it might be generally bad and superstitious to speculate about the meanings of stars and heavenly bodies, the Magi lived at a time when they were told one specific celestial event (the rising of a star from Israel) would be a sign of something. So they looked for that particular sign.

_________________
In Te speravi, Domine: dixi: Tu es Deus meus, in manibus Tuis tempora mea.
Have mercy on me, O Lord, for I am weak: heal me, O Lord, for my bones are troubled.
All that the Father giveth to me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me, I will not cast out.
Tiber swim team '13


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Anti-Chritian Practices
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 4:27 pm 
Offline
Newbie
Newbie

Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:42 pm
Posts: 27
Religion: Christianity
im sorry guys but im just having the hardest time understanding this. it makes no sense to me the the Most High would create the stars so that we would have signs, but if we look to the stars for signs its bad?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Anti-Chritian Practices
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 4:35 pm 
Offline
Newbie
Newbie

Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:42 pm
Posts: 27
Religion: Christianity
ForeverFaithful wrote:
jaybird wrote:
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
If you have reason to believe that doing so would be helpful.


i wouldnt know the first thing about it, in baptist churches we were taught those things were the devil. me personally i dont think they are. it seems like anything that could lead to personal revelation is off limits and we are told to read the bible, and nothing else. Jesus was taught by the Father, the 12 were taught by Jesus, it would be nice to have experience like that rather than just reading about it.


Another important difference is that the Wise Man had a prophecy which they expected to be fufilled.

"I shall see him, but not now: I shall behold him, but not near. A STAR SHALL RISE out of Jacob and a sceptre shall spring up from Israel: and shall strike the chiefs of Moab, and shall waste all the children of Seth." (Number 24:17)

So while it might be generally bad and superstitious to speculate about the meanings of stars and heavenly bodies, the Magi lived at a time when they were told one specific celestial event (the rising of a star from Israel) would be a sign of something. So they looked for that particular sign.


how did they know which star? Jacob, scepter, Isreal, etc all seem to represent something celestial. how did they know what all that meant?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Anti-Chritian Practices
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 4:36 pm 
Offline
Jedi Master
Jedi Master
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 9:55 am
Posts: 83048
Location: 1.5532386636 radians
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: 4th Degree KofC
Quote:
it makes no sense to me that the Most High would create the stars so that we would have signs

Where did this come from?

_________________
Nos autem in nomine Domini Dei nostri

Need something to read?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Anti-Chritian Practices
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 6:39 pm 
Offline
Newbie
Newbie

Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:42 pm
Posts: 27
Religion: Christianity
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Quote:
it makes no sense to me that the Most High would create the stars so that we would have signs

Where did this come from?


Genesis 1:14
And God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night. And let them be for signs and for seasons, and for days and years,

it says signs and seasons. The hebrew for signs is “oth” defined as banners (1), omens (1), pledge (1), sign (43), signs (30), standards (1), witness (1), wondrous (1).
im using an ESV and the Douay Rheims has the same transl;ation.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Anti-Chritian Practices
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 7:08 pm 
Offline
Jedi Master
Jedi Master
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 9:55 am
Posts: 83048
Location: 1.5532386636 radians
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: 4th Degree KofC
I figured there was an obvious answer I was missing.

Do signs have to deal with the future?

_________________
Nos autem in nomine Domini Dei nostri

Need something to read?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Anti-Chritian Practices
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 7:28 pm 
Offline
Newbie
Newbie

Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:42 pm
Posts: 27
Religion: Christianity
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
I figured there was an obvious answer I was missing.

Do signs have to deal with the future?


i wouldnt think so, i would think that it could be any message. im not trying to advocate for people to go out and learn how to read star signs, im just saying that i am not comfortable calling signs from the heavens bad if the Lord sends signs from the heavens. IMO bad is calling the Lords work bad. hope that makes sense.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Anti-Chritian Practices
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 7:47 pm 
Offline
Jedi Master
Jedi Master
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 9:55 am
Posts: 83048
Location: 1.5532386636 radians
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: 4th Degree KofC
I see your point. I would (and do) say in reply that signs foretelling the future are a problem, not signs in general. After all, John's Gospel talks about the signs Jesus worked.

_________________
Nos autem in nomine Domini Dei nostri

Need something to read?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Anti-Chritian Practices
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 7:55 pm 
Offline
Head Administrator
Head Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2002 9:24 am
Posts: 73544
Location: Music City
Religion: Catholic
Farmers (use to, anyway) use the positions of the stars and phases of the moon as signs. :fyi:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Anti-Chritian Practices
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 8:00 pm 
Offline
Jedi Master
Jedi Master
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 9:55 am
Posts: 83048
Location: 1.5532386636 radians
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: 4th Degree KofC
For planting? Nothing wrong with that.

_________________
Nos autem in nomine Domini Dei nostri

Need something to read?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Anti-Chritian Practices
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 8:33 pm 
Offline
Head Administrator
Head Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2002 9:24 am
Posts: 73544
Location: Music City
Religion: Catholic
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
For planting? Nothing wrong with that.


Yes, that's what I meant. The word "signs" can mean so many things.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Anti-Chritian Practices
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2020 5:47 pm 
Offline
Newbie
Newbie

Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:42 pm
Posts: 27
Religion: Christianity
my family farmed rice in south east arkansas. i remember my papaw teaching me how to make the proper rice offerings to the constellations of orion and cygnus to ensure a good harvest.
im just kidding about the offerings, we would usually plant mid may and flood the fields the end of june. you havent lived until you flipped a levy gate and have a nest of cotton mouths come after you. the meanest snake on the planet.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic Page 2 of 2   [ 38 posts ]   Go to page Previous  1, 2


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


Jump to: