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 Post subject: Re: lord of the rings
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:56 pm 
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Peregrinator wrote:
I read it about once per year, so I have probably read it 30+ times.


Other than the Bible, I can't think of any book that I would want to read every year. Generally, by the time I've read a book twice, I've practically got it memorized, there are only two books I have even as many as three times; Ender's Game and All Quiet On The Western Front. I've never read any book 4 times.

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 Post subject: Re: lord of the rings
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:00 pm 
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GKC wrote:
[
While yes, Tolkien wanted it published as a single entity, perhaps under one title, with numbered volumes, there being no natural division of it, beyond the 2 "books" in each of the published volumes, Allen & Unwin held out for 3 individually named volumes. One reason: to not throw off readers by the size of the thing, and to increase the possibility of publicity and reviews as each new title appeared(Carpenter bio). Tolkien (Letters) referred to the the problem being "length and cost". Paper shortage, I dunno.


I've always seen it attributed to a post-war paper shortage, as the wartime rationing of paper in England had not yet been lifted. Also, that the publisher didn't think there would be much interest in the book, but that they might be able to build interest gradually by serializing it, which is a strategy that worked, as each volume sold more than the previous one.

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 Post subject: Re: lord of the rings
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:29 pm 
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Doom wrote:
GKC wrote:
[
While yes, Tolkien wanted it published as a single entity, perhaps under one title, with numbered volumes, there being no natural division of it, beyond the 2 "books" in each of the published volumes, Allen & Unwin held out for 3 individually named volumes. One reason: to not throw off readers by the size of the thing, and to increase the possibility of publicity and reviews as each new title appeared(Carpenter bio). Tolkien (Letters) referred to the the problem being "length and cost". Paper shortage, I dunno.


I've always seen it attributed to a post-war paper shortage, as the wartime rationing of paper in England had not yet been lifted. Also, that the publisher didn't think there would be much interest in the book, but that they might be able to build interest gradually by serializing it, which is a strategy that worked, as each volume sold more than the previous one.



Your second point is what I was getting at, with the Carpenter reference. As to paper shortage, I dunno. Got a reference?

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 Post subject: Re: lord of the rings
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:31 pm 
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Doom wrote:
Peregrinator wrote:
I read it about once per year, so I have probably read it 30+ times.


Other than the Bible, I can't think of any book that I would want to read every year. Generally, by the time I've read a book twice, I've practically got it memorized, there are only two books I have even as many as three times; Ender's Game and All Quiet On The Western Front. I've never read any book 4 times.


Sherlock wept.

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 Post subject: Re: lord of the rings
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:44 pm 
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GKC wrote:
Your second point is what I was getting at, with the Carpenter reference. As to paper shortage, I dunno. Got a reference?


How about "Every single book I have read or documentary I have seen on the subject?" I've never really seen it attributed to anything else.

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 Post subject: Re: lord of the rings
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:11 pm 
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Doom wrote:
GKC wrote:
Your second point is what I was getting at, with the Carpenter reference. As to paper shortage, I dunno. Got a reference?


How about "Every single book I have read or documentary I have seen on the subject?" I've never really seen it attributed to anything else.



Until my post, above?

Might even be so. But as you know, I got a reference shelf that runs from here to the end of the block. I might have seen a reference to that paper shortage myself. But nothing turned up. I might look again.

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 Post subject: Re: lord of the rings
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:14 pm 
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Wikipedia attributes it to "post-war paper shortages, as well as being a way to keep down the price of the book." Alas, no footnote. If I knew where my copy of JRRT's letters was, I would look there first.

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 Post subject: Re: lord of the rings
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:27 pm 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Wikipedia attributes it to "post-war paper shortages, as well as being a way to keep down the price of the book." Alas, no footnote. If I knew where my copy of JRRT's letters was, I would look there first.




Uh-huh. Good idea. I looked there first, p.221. Where I got what I reported as above.



My memory suggests (but we know of that frail reed) that somewhere in the 100 yards of Tolkien material I have a source that gives me more on the Ace controversy, and much more on the sales. And perhaps there is to be found something on paper, shortage of. Until I see it ...I dunno. Can't cite a confirmation.

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 Post subject: Re: lord of the rings
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:36 pm 
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Ah, but you didn't look on p. 163. (I found my copy with minimal difficulty!) Writing to Rayner Unwin:

    Watching paper-shortages and costs mounting against me.

Also Carter's annotation on p. 164 to another letter to Rayner Unwin:

    On 23 October [1952], Rayner Unwin reported that, according to a printer's estimate, the book would have to be priced at £3. 10s (at least) in order to recover its costs, and that the price would be even higher if it were divided into two volumes.

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 Post subject: Re: lord of the rings
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:03 pm 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Ah, but you didn't look on p. 163. (I found my copy with minimal difficulty!) Writing to Rayner Unwin:

    Watching paper-shortages and costs mounting against me.

Also Carter's annotation on p. 164 to another letter to Rayner Unwin:

    On 23 October [1952], Rayner Unwin reported that, according to a printer's estimate, the book would have to be priced at £3. 10s (at least) in order to recover its costs, and that the price would be even higher if it were divided into two volumes.



Fudge. Though I did go through all index references that looked useful, and did look at pp. 166 and 169-170. And since I doubt you leapt, in the second citation, to Lin Carter's TOLKIEN:A LOOK BEHIND THE LORD OF THE RINGS (at least there is nothing relevant in that book, p. 164), I guess Carter is Carpenter. Especially since the quote is there, p. 164, as you say.

You will note how carefully I had worded my demurral, OTOH. And now I can make a good citation.

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 Post subject: Re: lord of the rings
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:53 pm 
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Ooops. Carpenter it is indeed.

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 Post subject: Re: lord of the rings
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:53 pm 
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I looked for letters around the right date.

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 Post subject: Re: lord of the rings
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:14 pm 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
I looked for letters around the right date.


Me too.

You did it better.

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 Post subject: Re: lord of the rings
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:15 pm 
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I guess I'm good at skimming.

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 Post subject: Re: lord of the rings
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:21 pm 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
I guess I'm good at skimming.


Usually, I am too. It's how I find quotations, when I can recall the book, but not the specific spot.

Let's tell Doom he was right. It will please him.

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 Post subject: Re: lord of the rings
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:28 pm 
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GKC wrote:
Let's tell Doom he was right. It will please him.


Yes. Pretend he won.


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 Post subject: Re: lord of the rings
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:35 pm 
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Strider wrote:
GKC wrote:
Let's tell Doom he was right. It will please him.


Yes. Pretend he won.


No need to pretend, I did win. I said that the reason the book was split into three parts was due to a post-war paper shortage, and they discovered that I was right.

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 Post subject: Re: lord of the rings
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:39 pm 
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It's too early in the year to agree with Doom :fyi:

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 Post subject: Re: lord of the rings
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:43 pm 
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GKC wrote:
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Ah, but you didn't look on p. 163. (I found my copy with minimal difficulty!) Writing to Rayner Unwin:

    Watching paper-shortages and costs mounting against me.

Also Carter's annotation on p. 164 to another letter to Rayner Unwin:

    On 23 October [1952], Rayner Unwin reported that, according to a printer's estimate, the book would have to be priced at £3. 10s (at least) in order to recover its costs, and that the price would be even higher if it were divided into two volumes.



Fudge.


mmmmmmmmmmmmm... fudge... with or wihtout nuts :cloud9:

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 Post subject: Re: lord of the rings
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:57 pm 
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GKC wrote:
Doom wrote:
Peregrinator wrote:
I read it about once per year, so I have probably read it 30+ times.


Other than the Bible, I can't think of any book that I would want to read every year. Generally, by the time I've read a book twice, I've practically got it memorized, there are only two books I have even as many as three times; Ender's Game and All Quiet On The Western Front. I've never read any book 4 times.


Sherlock wept.


I have exceptional recall of what I read. I don't quite have an eidetic memory, but my memory is quite good nevertheless. I took a test on my reading retention in high school and the test estimated that a year after reading something I retain 94% of what I read. This is why I can read 2/3 of the way through a book, put the book aside for months and then pick it up again and still remember where I left off. Sometimes, if a book is really big or confusing, I may need to read it twice to fully digest it all, but after that, I can recall specific passages almost verbatim years later.

For a literature class in high school, I was allowed the choice of what book I wanted to read to present a review or report on the book to the class, while I read it, the teacher read the same book to familiarize or remind himself of the plot and be able to ask me questions about it.

My choice was The Three Musketeers by Alexandre Dumas. I was able not only to accurately summarize the plot and answer all the questions, but there was one question that I disagreed with my teacher on, and not having the book with me, I was able to point him to the exact page in the book where I had read it, to prove that what I said was right and his 'answer' was wrong. I got extra credit for that.

I guess what I'm saying is, i rarely need to re-read anything.

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