Login Register

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic Page 1 of 1   [ 16 posts ]   
Author Message
 Post subject: "The Aeneid" - Virgil. Robert Fitzgerald Translation
PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 10:49 am 
Offline
Journeyman
Journeyman

Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2005 10:13 am
Posts: 1261
Location: Wisconsin
Religion: Roman Catholic
I come from a time when the classics were not part of the school reading curriculum (high school, nor college).

I was listening to a speech by Anthony Esolen (I made a post about reading his translation of Dante's Inferno) and he was talking about how generations prior always read the classics (namely Greek and Latin/Roman Epics). I've also read that some high school and college students had the requirement to learn a language like Latin in order to read "The Aeneid".... makes my struggles in high school and college seem paltry.

It's an incredibly interesting read so far. Slow, because I have to keep on searching on the references (who Ajax (the lesser) was and why Pallas (Minerva (Athena in Greece) wanted him dead.... just to name one).
It's all so new to me since I never had to read this in the past. But, I can see how these stories could have enchanted a mind and helped a person develop a virtuous character. It reminds me of what I read in Alan Bloom's "Closing of the American Mind"... dumbing down the coursework in hopes that it will be of benefit to the student.

Very early into the book. I might want to read some other translations after I'm done with Fitzgerald's. I did that with the Inferno. First I read Esolen's and then I read Mandelbaum's. I see Mandelbaum has a translation of "The Aeneid".


Anyway... I'm closing in on 40 years of age and my mind has never felt so impassioned to read and learn. Frustrating that I was so indifferent to all of this when I was in school, but, better late than never.

_________________
For who we are and what we'll be/ I'll sing your praise eternally/ the miles we've shared I'd trade but few/ they're the ones that kept me away from you.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "The Aeneid" - Virgil. Robert Fitzgerald Translation
PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 11:47 am 
Offline
King of Cool

Joined: Sun May 11, 2003 1:30 pm
Posts: 73543
Religion: Anticukite Catholic
p.falk wrote:
I come from a time when the classics were not part of the school reading curriculum (high school, nor college).

I was listening to a speech by Anthony Esolen (I made a post about reading his translation of Dante's Inferno) and he was talking about how generations prior always read the classics (namely Greek and Latin/Roman Epics). I've also read that some high school and college students had the requirement to learn a language like Latin in order to read "The Aeneid".... makes my struggles in high school and college seem paltry.


While that is true, it is also misleading. During the time period when students were required to learn Latin and Greek in order to graduate from high school and be admitted to college, this was at a time when only 2-3% of the population ever graduated from high school and most people had little more than a 3rd or 4th grade education, if even that. There has never been a time in American history when the people who knew the classical languages were anything other than the wealthy elite.

For the last several months, I have been reading presidential biographies. And the fact of the matter is that the majority of presidents, especially in the early years of the republic, came from wealthy families and were largely self educated. George Washington never went to college, nor did Benjamin Franklin

And whole Thomas Jefferson, John Adams and John Quincy Adams had college degrees, they entered college at a young age, 14 for JQ Adams, when he was admitted to Harvard as a JUNIOR, and they were almost entirely self educated. Thomas Jefferson knew Greek, Latin, Spanish, French and German, but again, he was largely self taught. Indeed, to be admitted to college in the 18th century, the student needed to be ALREADY FLUENT in Greek and Latin, which JQ Adams was by age 14.

When you get past the era of the Founders, when the presidents were no longer the sons of wealthy landowners, but were of middle and even lower class origins, they were no longer as well educated. Neither Andrew Jackson nor Abraham Lincoln had any formal schooling. Jackson was denounced and accused by JQ Adams as being 'so illiterate, he cannot even spell his own name' (a claim which was completely false because Jackson could both read and write).

My point, and believe it or not, I do have one, is that there was never a time when 'everyone' knew Greek and Latin and read the classics. This was never true of anyone except the wealthy elite.

And while the requirements for high school and college graduation are considerably lower than they were in the 18th and even 19th centuries, by the same token, 80-90% of all people get at least a high school diploma, and around 50-60% have at least some college.
So it is not really true that people today are less educated than they were in the past. On average, people today are more educated than ever.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "The Aeneid" - Virgil. Robert Fitzgerald Translation
PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 12:07 pm 
Offline
Some Poor Bibliophile
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 10:22 pm
Posts: 17306
p.falk wrote:
I come from a time when the classics were not part of the school reading curriculum (high school, nor college).

I was listening to a speech by Anthony Esolen (I made a post about reading his translation of Dante's Inferno) and he was talking about how generations prior always read the classics (namely Greek and Latin/Roman Epics). I've also read that some high school and college students had the requirement to learn a language like Latin in order to read "The Aeneid".... makes my struggles in high school and college seem paltry.

It's an incredibly interesting read so far. Slow, because I have to keep on searching on the references (who Ajax (the lesser) was and why Pallas (Minerva (Athena in Greece) wanted him dead.... just to name one).
It's all so new to me since I never had to read this in the past. But, I can see how these stories could have enchanted a mind and helped a person develop a virtuous character. It reminds me of what I read in Alan Bloom's "Closing of the American Mind"... dumbing down the coursework in hopes that it will be of benefit to the student.

Very early into the book. I might want to read some other translations after I'm done with Fitzgerald's. I did that with the Inferno. First I read Esolen's and then I read Mandelbaum's. I see Mandelbaum has a translation of "The Aeneid".


Anyway... I'm closing in on 40 years of age and my mind has never felt so impassioned to read and learn. Frustrating that I was so indifferent to all of this when I was in school, but, better late than never.



:clap:

_________________
"I tell you naught for your comfort,
Yea, naught for your desire,
Save that the sky grows darker yet
And the sea rises higher."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "The Aeneid" - Virgil. Robert Fitzgerald Translation
PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 1:14 pm 
Offline
Jedi Master
Jedi Master
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 9:55 am
Posts: 74298
Location: 1.56381501 radians
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: 4th Degree KofC
It's much better in the original Klingon.

_________________
Nos autem in nomine Domini Dei nostri

Need something to read?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "The Aeneid" - Virgil. Robert Fitzgerald Translation
PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 2:55 pm 
Offline
Our Lady's Gladiator
Our Lady's Gladiator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2003 7:26 am
Posts: 97706
Location: Revelation 11:19-12:1
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: 3rd Degree Knight of Columbus
i absolutely devoured the 3 major mythology genres (greek, roman , and norse) when i was a kid.... couldn't get enough of them and read everything i could lay my hands on

_________________
All Marian devotion begins with Christ,is centered on Christ,and ends with Christ.
As Mary brought Jesus to us,so shall She bring us to Jesus!


De Maria numquam satis

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "The Aeneid" - Virgil. Robert Fitzgerald Translation
PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 4:12 pm 
Offline
Some Poor Bibliophile
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 10:22 pm
Posts: 17306
faithfulservant wrote:
i absolutely devoured the 3 major mythology genres (greek, roman , and norse) when i was a kid.... couldn't get enough of them and read everything i could lay my hands on



BULFINCH's MYTHOLOGY, starting in grammar school.

_________________
"I tell you naught for your comfort,
Yea, naught for your desire,
Save that the sky grows darker yet
And the sea rises higher."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "The Aeneid" - Virgil. Robert Fitzgerald Translation
PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 4:15 pm 
Offline
The Exterminator
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2005 9:44 pm
Posts: 26191
Location: The Old Forest
Religion: Númenórean Catholic
Mine is by John Dryden, I think it was done long ago and still well respected. Flipping through I find it to be fairly accessible. I haven't read it yet.

_________________
This is absurd.

- Justice Scalia, dissent, King v. Burwell.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "The Aeneid" - Virgil. Robert Fitzgerald Translation
PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 4:27 pm 
Offline
There Can Be Only One
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2008 10:44 pm
Posts: 10726
Location: Nuevo Mexico
Religion: Catholic
Robert Fagles.

IMHO, best translation for a modern reader.

_________________
Where’er the Catholic sun doth shine,
There’s music and laughter and good red wine.
At least I’ve always found it so.
Benedicamus Domino!
~Hilaire Belloc

Semper Fi!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "The Aeneid" - Virgil. Robert Fitzgerald Translation
PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 6:10 pm 
Offline
Our Lady's Gladiator
Our Lady's Gladiator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2003 7:26 am
Posts: 97706
Location: Revelation 11:19-12:1
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: 3rd Degree Knight of Columbus
GKC wrote:
faithfulservant wrote:
i absolutely devoured the 3 major mythology genres (greek, roman , and norse) when i was a kid.... couldn't get enough of them and read everything i could lay my hands on



BULFINCH's MYTHOLOGY, starting in grammar school.


4th grade began my journey into the wonderful world of mythology... have no clue the titles, but i do remember the norse mythology book was a peachy/salmon in color 8-)

_________________
All Marian devotion begins with Christ,is centered on Christ,and ends with Christ.
As Mary brought Jesus to us,so shall She bring us to Jesus!


De Maria numquam satis

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "The Aeneid" - Virgil. Robert Fitzgerald Translation
PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 6:32 pm 
Offline
Citizen
Citizen
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:36 am
Posts: 149
Religion: Catholic
Edith Hamilton, "Mythology: Timeless Tales of Gods and Heroes". 6th grade 1st borrowed library book. A whole new world of imagination in 1965 that was already 2000 + years old !

_________________
The truth of the Real Presence "cannot be apprehended by the senses but only by faith which relies on divine authority"
(St. Thomas Aquinas)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "The Aeneid" - Virgil. Robert Fitzgerald Translation
PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 8:15 am 
Offline
Some Poor Bibliophile
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 10:22 pm
Posts: 17306
Essential Sacrifice wrote:
Edith Hamilton, "Mythology: Timeless Tales of Gods and Heroes". 6th grade 1st borrowed library book. A whole new world of imagination in 1965 that was already 2000 + years old !


And what I went to, after BULFINCH'S.

_________________
"I tell you naught for your comfort,
Yea, naught for your desire,
Save that the sky grows darker yet
And the sea rises higher."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "The Aeneid" - Virgil. Robert Fitzgerald Translation
PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 8:28 am 
Offline
Journeyman
Journeyman

Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2005 10:13 am
Posts: 1261
Location: Wisconsin
Religion: Roman Catholic
The histories of all the different people can be confusing to follow.

There is Carthage with the Carthigians who are also called Tyrians because it was the Tyrians who came to Libya to found Carthage... but the Carthaginians who are called Tyrians are also called Phoenicians... and the queen of the area is called the Sidonian queen because Tyre was founded in Sidon.

I'm flipping to the back of the book for references more often than I'm reading the book :)

_________________
For who we are and what we'll be/ I'll sing your praise eternally/ the miles we've shared I'd trade but few/ they're the ones that kept me away from you.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "The Aeneid" - Virgil. Robert Fitzgerald Translation
PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:21 am 
Offline
Trophy Dwarf
Trophy Dwarf
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:10 pm
Posts: 33711
Location: Here in the center holding my bleeding heart...
Religion: Catholic Convert
Church Affiliations: Dorothy Day Guild
GKC wrote:
faithfulservant wrote:
i absolutely devoured the 3 major mythology genres (greek, roman , and norse) when i was a kid.... couldn't get enough of them and read everything i could lay my hands on



BULFINCH's MYTHOLOGY, starting in grammar school.


Back before the term "homeschooling" existed, I was home schooled. We called it "Correspondence School" back then. Late 60's/early 70's - - -

The Calvert School introduced Greek mythology in 3rd grade IIRC. That was all it took, I still remember when I first had a copy BULFINCH's.

_________________
Living life on prayers and hooks and needles...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "The Aeneid" - Virgil. Robert Fitzgerald Translation
PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:00 pm 
Offline
Some Poor Bibliophile
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 10:22 pm
Posts: 17306
kage_ar wrote:
GKC wrote:
faithfulservant wrote:
i absolutely devoured the 3 major mythology genres (greek, roman , and norse) when i was a kid.... couldn't get enough of them and read everything i could lay my hands on



BULFINCH's MYTHOLOGY, starting in grammar school.


Back before the term "homeschooling" existed, I was home schooled. We called it "Correspondence School" back then. Late 60's/early 70's - - -

The Calvert School introduced Greek mythology in 3rd grade IIRC. That was all it took, I still remember when I first had a copy BULFINCH's.



Mine was my Dad's. I still have it.

_________________
"I tell you naught for your comfort,
Yea, naught for your desire,
Save that the sky grows darker yet
And the sea rises higher."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "The Aeneid" - Virgil. Robert Fitzgerald Translation
PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:10 pm 
Offline
Trophy Dwarf
Trophy Dwarf
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:10 pm
Posts: 33711
Location: Here in the center holding my bleeding heart...
Religion: Catholic Convert
Church Affiliations: Dorothy Day Guild
GKC wrote:
kage_ar wrote:
GKC wrote:
faithfulservant wrote:
i absolutely devoured the 3 major mythology genres (greek, roman , and norse) when i was a kid.... couldn't get enough of them and read everything i could lay my hands on



BULFINCH's MYTHOLOGY, starting in grammar school.


Back before the term "homeschooling" existed, I was home schooled. We called it "Correspondence School" back then. Late 60's/early 70's - - -

The Calvert School introduced Greek mythology in 3rd grade IIRC. That was all it took, I still remember when I first had a copy BULFINCH's.



Mine was my Dad's. I still have it.


:cloud9:

My dear, sweet, saintly mother... she had no exposure to mythology before it came up in my curriculum (my first school text book was called "The Gods of Greece"). I will always cherish my mom's mispronunciations of the names when we read the lessons. "purr-se-phone" is one that I still have to mentally correct.

It carried over to other things, I grew up listening her read "WRAPPIN-zell" let down your hair!

_________________
Living life on prayers and hooks and needles...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "The Aeneid" - Virgil. Robert Fitzgerald Translation
PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 4:32 pm 
Offline
Some Poor Bibliophile
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 10:22 pm
Posts: 17306
kage_ar wrote:
GKC wrote:
kage_ar wrote:
GKC wrote:
faithfulservant wrote:
i absolutely devoured the 3 major mythology genres (greek, roman , and norse) when i was a kid.... couldn't get enough of them and read everything i could lay my hands on



BULFINCH's MYTHOLOGY, starting in grammar school.


Back before the term "homeschooling" existed, I was home schooled. We called it "Correspondence School" back then. Late 60's/early 70's - - -

The Calvert School introduced Greek mythology in 3rd grade IIRC. That was all it took, I still remember when I first had a copy BULFINCH's.



Mine was my Dad's. I still have it.


:cloud9:

My dear, sweet, saintly mother... she had no exposure to mythology before it came up in my curriculum (my first school text book was called "The Gods of Greece"). I will always cherish my mom's mispronunciations of the names when we read the lessons. "purr-se-phone" is one that I still have to mentally correct.

It carried over to other things, I grew up listening her read "WRAPPIN-zell" let down your hair!


That is a good memory.

I bet I still mispronounce some of them.

_________________
"I tell you naught for your comfort,
Yea, naught for your desire,
Save that the sky grows darker yet
And the sea rises higher."


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic Page 1 of 1   [ 16 posts ]   


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


Jump to: