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 Post subject: Re: War veterans?
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2020 9:23 pm 
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I have one question. How many lives of your country would you exchange for being free from the rule of 1940's Japan? Any answer less than all will not be considered. Would you not pay respect to those who died to prevent that horrific outcome? I would. Any answer other than yes will not be accepted. Sorry.

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 Post subject: Re: War veterans?
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2020 10:05 pm 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Do they involve dying a violent death?

What about manual scavengers, and healthcare workers without protective equipment?

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 Post subject: Re: War veterans?
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2020 11:38 pm 
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Jack3 wrote:
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Do they involve dying a violent death?

What about manual scavengers, and healthcare workers without protective equipment?


Are they getting shot, or captured and tortured?


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 Post subject: Re: War veterans?
PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2020 3:57 am 
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Signum Crucis wrote:
Jack3 wrote:
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Do they involve dying a violent death?

What about manual scavengers, and healthcare workers without protective equipment?


Are they getting shot, or captured and tortured?

No, but they risk their lives.

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 Post subject: Re: War veterans?
PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2020 7:14 am 
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Evidently loggers have the most dangerous job here in the US. They don't get their own special day around here.

I don't believe the fundamental issue is whether people's lives are in some sense at risk, but rather the nature of the risk. Ordinarily, medical workers may be at some kind of risk--though their jobs are apparently not among the most dangerous here in the US--but they do not walk into fearsome danger every shift like a soldier always might. Also, they are pretty well-paid, and especially doctors are socially rewarded by all kinds of prestige, special titles, etc. In a sense, their jobs are just every day regular old jobs, and they get well rewarded for doing them.

Now, in freakish circumstances, like a pandemic, the risk factor for some doctors and nurses and other health workers can go way up, because in fact they are walking into serious danger every shift. It's still not quite like walking into enemy fire, but it's serious danger. And I don't know about what's going on in other countries, but here in the US we're having military planes do flyovers and everybody's talking about how great these folks are. The recognition of the danger does oftentimes come.

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 Post subject: Re: War veterans?
PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2020 10:21 am 
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Mrs. Timmy wrote:
[quote="Highlander”]If you are serious, and I don't know that you are, you might watch "Saving Private Ryan" for a small appreciation of why we honor our dead on Veterans Memorial Day.[/quote]
FTFY :wave[/quote][/quote]

Thank you, 'mam.

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 Post subject: Re: War veterans?
PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2020 10:34 am 
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Now, to comparisons.

Most, if not all, of the job comparisons simply don't hold water. The jobs all have the common element of being able to walk away. A nurse or a logger or a cop or a social worker can simply walk into the office and say, "I quit." Even in the middle of a shift or upon wakening in the morning. Unless one is in China or Cuba, one can. Military personnel can't.

So, as the LCVT was cruising in to the black sand beaches of Iwo Jima, I doubt there was one coxswain who radioed back to the Landing Officer and said, "Geez, Sir! The Marines embarked had a vote and they decided that, Iwo being rather unpleasant, they all quit. So, I'll have to turn back and pick up another load. No, actually, I quit too."

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 Post subject: Re: War veterans?
PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2020 10:48 am 
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Can soldiers not quit?

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-From the introduction to Our Father, "On the feasts of the Lord and other important feasts", Syro Malabar rite


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 Post subject: Re: War veterans?
PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2020 10:52 am 
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Yes soldiers can definitely quit. Soldiers who decide to quit are committing an offense known as desertion, and deserters can face a firing squad, though we haven't actually shot a deserter since WWII.

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Last edited by gherkin on Sat May 30, 2020 10:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: War veterans?
PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2020 10:53 am 
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What about in peacetime?

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-From the introduction to Our Father, "On the feasts of the Lord and other important feasts", Syro Malabar rite


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 Post subject: Re: War veterans?
PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2020 10:54 am 
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gherkin wrote:
EviNow, in freakish circumstances, like a pandemic, the risk factor for some doctors and nurses and other health workers can go way up, because in fact they are walking into serious danger every shift. It's still not quite like walking into enemy fire, but it's serious danger. And I don't know about what's going on in other countries, but here in the US we're having military planes do flyovers and everybody's talking about how great these folks are. The recognition of the danger does oftentimes come.

We have various things, but not enough good protective equipment.

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"May our tongues proclaim Your truth. May Your Cross be a protection for us as we let our tongues be turned into new harps and sing hymns with fiery lips"

-From the introduction to Our Father, "On the feasts of the Lord and other important feasts", Syro Malabar rite


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 Post subject: Re: War veterans?
PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2020 10:57 am 
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Jack3 wrote:
What about in peacetime?

That was a misstatement--desertion can occur in wartime or peacetime. The motivation to desert tends to be higher in wartime, and I'm not aware of our military having much issue with desertion when we're at peace!

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 Post subject: Re: War veterans?
PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2020 10:57 am 
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Jack3 wrote:
Can soldiers not quit?

Honorably? Only when their term of enlightenment expires. When I enlisted in 1985, it was an initial 8-year commitment - the first 4 on active duty, the remainder on “ready reserve” as a civilian who could be called back into active service at any time. Three years into my active duty term, however, Congress mandated military personnel cuts and TPTB chose to end my active service a year early. In other words, the federal government can change their minds at whim without repercussions. The individual service member cannot.

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 Post subject: Re: War veterans?
PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2020 11:04 am 
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Thank you for your answers. I understand.

Here's another question I remembered only because it seems a bit registered.

There was an issue kai year, of the dead patient's family members beating up a doctor in revenge or something and he was seriously injured.
When doctors protested, a minister said "soldiers die in battle too, they don't protest like this". There's something wrong in this comparison, I think. What exactly is that?

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"May our tongues proclaim Your truth. May Your Cross be a protection for us as we let our tongues be turned into new harps and sing hymns with fiery lips"

-From the introduction to Our Father, "On the feasts of the Lord and other important feasts", Syro Malabar rite


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 Post subject: Re: War veterans?
PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2020 11:06 am 
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Jack3 wrote:
Can soldiers not quit?

All in all, no.

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Where’er the Catholic sun doth shine,
There’s music and laughter and good red wine.
At least I’ve always found it so.
Benedicamus Domino!
~Hilaire Belloc

Semper Fi!


Last edited by Highlander on Sat May 30, 2020 11:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: War veterans?
PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2020 11:07 am 
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Jack3 wrote:
What about in peacetime?

All in all, no.

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Where’er the Catholic sun doth shine,
There’s music and laughter and good red wine.
At least I’ve always found it so.
Benedicamus Domino!
~Hilaire Belloc

Semper Fi!


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 Post subject: Re: War veterans?
PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2020 11:11 am 
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There is an instructive tale told in the military.

The soldier in ranks refuses to obey his Sergeant's order. He states, "I won't and you can't make me." The Sergeant replies, "Your are absolutely correct; I can't make you. But I can make you wish, to your dying day, that you had."

I understand that some here have no concept of life in the military. Just take it at face value that, once you enlist or are commissioned, you obey orders, whatever the consequences. And, if you don't obey orders, the consequences will probably be worse.

_________________
Where’er the Catholic sun doth shine,
There’s music and laughter and good red wine.
At least I’ve always found it so.
Benedicamus Domino!
~Hilaire Belloc

Semper Fi!


Last edited by Highlander on Sat May 30, 2020 1:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: War veterans?
PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2020 11:13 am 
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gherkin wrote:
Yes soldiers can definitely quit. Soldiers who decide to quit are committing an offense known as desertion, and deserters can face a firing squad, though we haven't actually shot a deserter since WWII.
Officially.

The words that make your stomach drop to the center of the earth, "Smith, you have point."

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Where’er the Catholic sun doth shine,
There’s music and laughter and good red wine.
At least I’ve always found it so.
Benedicamus Domino!
~Hilaire Belloc

Semper Fi!


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 Post subject: Re: War veterans?
PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2020 11:21 am 
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Highlander wrote:
There is an instructive tale told in the military.

The soldier in ranks refuses to obey his Sergeants order. He states, "I won't and you can't make me." The Sergeant replies, "Your are absolutely correct; I can't make you. But I can make you wish, to your dying day, that you had."

I understand that some here have no concept of life in the military. Just take it at face value that, once you enlist or are commissioned, you obey orders, whatever the consequences. And, if you don't obey orders, the consequences will probably be worse.

Thank you

_________________
"May our tongues proclaim Your truth. May Your Cross be a protection for us as we let our tongues be turned into new harps and sing hymns with fiery lips"

-From the introduction to Our Father, "On the feasts of the Lord and other important feasts", Syro Malabar rite


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 Post subject: Re: War veterans?
PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2020 12:51 pm 
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Jack3 wrote:
Thank you for your answers. I understand.

Here's another question I remembered only because it seems a bit registered.

There was an issue kai year, of the dead patient's family members beating up a doctor in revenge or something and he was seriously injured.
When doctors protested, a minister said "soldiers die in battle too, they don't protest like this". There's something wrong in this comparison, I think. What exactly is that?

It’s apples and oranges. A soldier knows that an inherent part of his job involves the district possibility of suffering a serious violent injury, perhaps death. I highly doubt you can find a physician, other than one in a pararescue unit, who can make that claim.

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formerly "ghall512"--Thanks for the idea, arkcatholic! :clap:


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