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 Post subject: UFO's
PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 8:56 am 
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https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ufo-navy-videos-pentagon-confirms-videos-unidentified-aerial-phenomena-today-2020-04-27/

"Washington — The Pentagon on Monday formally released three unclassified videos taken by Navy pilots that have circulated for years showing interactions with "unidentified aerial phenomena.""

I admit, I'm one who has always been skeptical of these types of things as being extraterrestrial (see video). For years the folks who touted this and that about UFO's also tended to believe in things like remote viewing, big foot and the Lochness Monster as being real too.

But, as with my lack of belief in "ghosts" my skepticism has faded over time...

This video kinda rocks my thinking....

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 Post subject: Re: UFO's
PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 9:46 am 
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Jimmy Akin's Mysterious World podcast has several good episodes on UFOs.

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 Post subject: Re: UFO's
PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 10:26 am 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Jimmy Akin's Mysterious World podcast has several good episodes on UFOs.


I'll give them a listen! Thanks!

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 Post subject: Re: UFO's
PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 11:29 am 
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Peetem wrote:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ufo-navy-videos-pentagon-confirms-videos-unidentified-aerial-phenomena-today-2020-04-27/

"Washington — The Pentagon on Monday formally released three unclassified videos taken by Navy pilots that have circulated for years showing interactions with "unidentified aerial phenomena.""

I admit, I'm one who has always been skeptical of these types of things as being extraterrestrial (see video). For years the folks who touted this and that about UFO's also tended to believe in things like remote viewing, big foot and the Lochness Monster as being real too.

But, as with my lack of belief in "ghosts" my skepticism has faded over time...

This video kinda rocks my thinking....




All three of them made me look twice. Back when they first were shown.

After 60 years of reading and collecting books on UFOs and similar unlikely things.

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 Post subject: Re: UFO's
PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 4:46 pm 
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I believe there are UFO's, i.e. unidentified flying objects. That doesn't mean that they are necessarily from outer space. It just means that we cannot identify them. If we are able to identify a flying object - maybe we discover that it is a Russian planes, for instance - it becomes an identified flying object.

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 Post subject: Re: UFO's
PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 4:49 pm 
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I also want to add that many seem to think that 'UFO' means 'unidentifiable flying object' rather than 'unidentified flying object.' But that's not the case.

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 Post subject: Re: UFO's
PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 5:35 pm 
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Peetem wrote:
For years the folks who touted this and that about UFO's also tended to believe in things like remote viewing, big foot and the Lochness Monster as being real too.


How dare you! This senseless oppression of Nessie must end!

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 Post subject: Re: UFO's
PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 5:36 pm 
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Closet Catholic wrote:
I also want to add that many seem to think that 'UFO' means 'unidentifiable flying object' rather than 'unidentified flying object.' But that's not the case.



The first book on UFOs I bought, among the first books I ever bought myself, was Edward Ruppelt's THE REPORT ON UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECTS, nigh-on 65 years ago. IIRC correctly, Ruppelt, the head of the Air Force's Project Blue Book, coined the term. He first became involved in Project Grudge, the Air Force's immediately preceding UFO study program, and morphed it into a more systematic study of the phenomena (Blue Book), not primarily aimed at debunking the subject, as it had been said Grudge was inclined. Grudge was preceded by Project Sign, which concluded that it couldn't reach a conclusion.

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 Post subject: Re: UFO's
PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 5:45 pm 
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Norwegianblue wrote:
Peetem wrote:
For years the folks who touted this and that about UFO's also tended to believe in things like remote viewing, big foot and the Lochness Monster as being real too.


How dare you! This senseless oppression of Nessie must end!

I agree with Norwegianblue!

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 Post subject: Re: UFO's
PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2020 6:21 pm 
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Aside from coining the term UFO, Ruppelt had little of value to say. Astronomer, or astro-physicist, J. Allen Hynek was brought on board from the beginning when the name Project Saucer was changed to Project Sign, then Grudge and then Blue Book. None of these projects got anywhere. General Nathan Twining produced a letter referred as the Twining Memo. He laid out the operating characteristics of flying saucers and indicated that a similar craft could be built at the time, but the "memo" included a few allegedly real, but impossible characteristics. Wright Field in Dayton, Ohio was supposedly preparing wind tunnel models. They were heavily involved in examining captured German aircraft both during and after the war. The USAF had the job of protecting North American airspace from Russian bombers. But aside from sending up jet fighters to see if Russian bombers were on the way, it did nothing about UFOs. US and Allied strategic reconnaissance over Russia and Eastern Europe started in 1945. There was a real concern the Russians would attack Western Europe and that concern was amplified by the Russians shutting themselves off behind the Iron Curtain, as announced by Winston Churchill in March, 1946. The Russians were the prime suspects for saucer sightings. Just as the Allies sent spy aircraft over Eastern Europe, the Russians needed intelligence and also sent spy aircraft. If they crashed in the US, they could be explained as "alien" spacecraft. During World War II, 1.5 million Americans were part of the Ground Observer Corps that watched for enemy aircraft, but that ended in 1944. The Corps was revived in early 1950 and Canada had observers as well. See, Secret Projects: Flying Saucer Aircraft by Bill Rose.


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 Post subject: Re: UFO's
PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2020 7:09 pm 
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Amon98 wrote:
Aside from coining the term UFO, Ruppelt had little of value to say. Astronomer, or astro-physicist, J. Allen Hynek was brought on board from the beginning when the name Project Saucer was changed to Project Sign, then Grudge and then Blue Book. None of these projects got anywhere. General Nathan Twining produced a letter referred as the Twining Memo. He laid out the operating characteristics of flying saucers and indicated that a similar craft could be built at the time, but the "memo" included a few allegedly real, but impossible characteristics. Wright Field in Dayton, Ohio was supposedly preparing wind tunnel models. They were heavily involved in examining captured German aircraft both during and after the war. The USAF had the job of protecting North American airspace from Russian bombers. But aside from sending up jet fighters to see if Russian bombers were on the way, it did nothing about UFOs. US and Allied strategic reconnaissance over Russia and Eastern Europe started in 1945. There was a real concern the Russians would attack Western Europe and that concern was amplified by the Russians shutting themselves off behind the Iron Curtain, as announced by Winston Churchill in March, 1946. The Russians were the prime suspects for saucer sightings. Just as the Allies sent spy aircraft over Eastern Europe, the Russians needed intelligence and also sent spy aircraft. If they crashed in the US, they could be explained as "alien" spacecraft. During World War II, 1.5 million Americans were part of the Ground Observer Corps that watched for enemy aircraft, but that ended in 1944. The Corps was revived in early 1950 and Canada had observers as well. See, Secret Projects: Flying Saucer Aircraft by Bill Rose.


Well...yes. Somewhat.

Not familiar with any crashed Soviet aircraft masquerading as flying saucers, unless the story in that Area 51 book I've lost, about Soviets faking Roswell, including using some form of modified humans as the little dead aliens is adduced as evidence.

USAF aircraft were known to chase UFOs. Mantell, for example, and the Washington DC sightings in 1952. The Kinross AFB incident. If all the saucer books were not in storage, I'd remember more such.

Meanwhile, here is a fun link introducing the CIA:

https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for- ... s/ufo.html

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 Post subject: Re: UFO's
PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2020 1:52 pm 
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I have found the FBI to be a better source than the CIA. The latter amounts to asking the fox how many times he went to visit the henhouse. Mantell and the rest amount to a few incidents that ignores the larger picture. Little of value has been published since 1947. In 1966, the USAF contracted with the University of Colorado to study UFOs and release a scientific report. In 1968, the report was released. I bought the paperback version in January 1969. It was a mess. It reflected the very bad and misleading explanations the Air Force had been giving the public since the beginning. But it was the official excuse for the USAF to get out of the UFO business. After that, the quality of UFO research dropped greatly. Civilian groups disappeared. Even popular flying saucer/UFO magazines began to disappear. But UFOs kept appearing and the military kept track of all reports.

Roswell was the crash of a test aircraft. The White Sands Missile Range was not far away.


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 Post subject: Re: UFO's
PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2020 2:10 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: UFO's
PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2020 4:56 pm 
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Thank you. The government loves to relabel things. However, first in the military, then for commercial pilots, strict reporting guidelines were issued. There was the joint US-Canadian CIRVIS-MERINT reporting procedure. CIRVIS stood for Communications Instructions for Reporting Vital Intelligence Sightings. MERINT was for suspicious objects on the water or objects reported by naval vessels. Rapid reporting was the rule. There was no public ridicule here. Sightings were to be reported quickly and these were sent on to whoever should know.

Further information was published in JANAP 146 or Joint Army Navy Air Publication that was later updated and reissued as time passed and which kept widening the ring of what fell under the category of information that needed to be reported and withheld from others outside of official persons and groups. And there was a long list of official government/military groups that got this information. And most of them were not known to the public as being involved with UFO investigations. Later, documents were declassified/unclassified that showed that no matter what happened publicly, like the end of Project Blue Book, the security of North American airspace remains a high priority and all the evidence points to the right people getting UFO information to the present day.


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 Post subject: Re: UFO's
PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2020 5:04 pm 
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Amon98 wrote:
I have found the FBI to be a better source than the CIA. The latter amounts to asking the fox how many times he went to visit the henhouse. Mantell and the rest amount to a few incidents that ignores the larger picture. Little of value has been published since 1947. In 1966, the USAF contracted with the University of Colorado to study UFOs and release a scientific report. In 1968, the report was released. I bought the paperback version in January 1969. It was a mess. It reflected the very bad and misleading explanations the Air Force had been giving the public since the beginning. But it was the official excuse for the USAF to get out of the UFO business. After that, the quality of UFO research dropped greatly. Civilian groups disappeared. Even popular flying saucer/UFO magazines began to disappear. But UFOs kept appearing and the military kept track of all reports.

Roswell was the crash of a test aircraft. The White Sands Missile Range was not far away.


I bought the Condon report in 1969. I did not find it a mess. I also bought MacDonald's book. I found it more a mess.

Roswell was most likely related to Project Mogul, as finally revealed. I have some reasons for believing that.

NICAP, at least, was brought down by Keyhoe's mismanagement. I got two of his books.

I am not a true believer, and that's after 65 years of reading on the subject, on and off.

I do like these new tapes.

Believe what you find convincing. Majestic 12, perhaps.

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 Post subject: Re: UFO's
PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2020 5:32 pm 
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After years of careful study, most of what has been published for the public has been speculation at best. For those who would analyze the material presented starting with Kenneth Arnold in 1947, there are clear signs of leaving the public in the dark and clear signs of advanced technology capabilities at that time, which is provided by the existence of various government agencies and reports, especially those published right after the war. If there was no evidence, there would have been nothing for me to find. Roswell had nothing to do with Mogul or any balloon experiments. The White Sands Missile Range was secret and German technicians were setting the stage for advanced rockets which would lead to ICBMs and other aircraft/aerospace technologies. In 1954, a German published a patent for a disc aircraft based on one built during the war at the same rocket research center our German scientists worked at. Military aviation had been banned in Germany by the Allied Occupation Government until 1954.

Majestic 12 is fiction.


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 Post subject: Re: UFO's
PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2020 5:40 pm 
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Amon98 wrote:
After years of careful study, most of what has been published for the public has been speculation at best. For those who would analyze the material presented starting with Kenneth Arnold in 1947, there are clear signs of leaving the public in the dark and clear signs of advanced technology capabilities at that time, which is provided by the existence of various government agencies and reports, especially those published right after the war. If there was no evidence, there would have been nothing for me to find. Roswell had nothing to do with Mogul or any balloon experiments. The White Sands Missile Range was secret and German technicians were setting the stage for advanced rockets which would lead to ICBMs and other aircraft/aerospace technologies. In 1954, a German published a patent for a disc aircraft based on one built during the war at the same rocket research center our German scientists worked at. Military aviation had been banned in Germany by the Allied Occupation Government until 1954.

Majestic 12 is fiction.


We agree on a point. I'm surprised.

I'm aware of various disc based aircraft, as proposed and as (somewhat) tested. Otherwise it's raving loon conspiracy stuff. I don't do raving loon. The only folks I block on here are RLs: Sprites, chemtrails, HAARP, Catholic/Jesuit oaths, Jekyll Island and etc.

And I spent almost all my career in aircraft/weapon systems development. The background on some of that stuff is part of my book collecting mania.

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 Post subject: Re: UFO's
PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2020 5:53 pm 
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You signed no secrecy agreements while working on aircraft/weapon systems developments? Do you know how much still remains classified from the 1950s? I suggest you look up Weapons System 606-A and the related Weapons System 606-A Supersonic Application. I do actual documents and credible sources not raving loon.

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 Post subject: Re: UFO's
PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2020 1:06 pm 
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I'm not that interested in UFOS, but the place to hear about UFO"s is Coast to Coast Radio.
One of their guests on Coast to Coast went so far as to say the sun spinning at Fatima, was really a UFO. :D Naturally this person has a following and sells many books.


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