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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Meter
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 1:44 am 
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The flu didn't shut down the country last year or the year before or the year before that..

As of Feb 3, 2020:
"The flu remains a higher threat to U.S. public health than the new coronavirus.
This flu season alone has sickened at least 19 million across the U.S. and led to 10,000 deaths and 180,000 hospitalizations."

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/03/the-flu ... virus.html

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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Meter
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 8:06 am 
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EtcumSpiri22-0 wrote:
The flu didn't shut down the country last year or the year before or the year before that..

As of Feb 3, 2020:
"The flu remains a higher threat to U.S. public health than the new coronavirus.
This flu season alone has sickened at least 19 million across the U.S. and led to 10,000 deaths and 180,000 hospitalizations."

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/03/the-flu ... virus.html


What’s your point?

If its that we shouldn’t be shutting down the country for Covid-19 fears then, “yes”, I agree with you.

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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Meter
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 9:24 am 
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Peetem wrote:
EtcumSpiri22-0 wrote:
The flu didn't shut down the country last year or the year before or the year before that..

As of Feb 3, 2020:
"The flu remains a higher threat to U.S. public health than the new coronavirus.
This flu season alone has sickened at least 19 million across the U.S. and led to 10,000 deaths and 180,000 hospitalizations."

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/03/the-flu ... virus.html


What’s your point?

If its that we shouldn’t be shutting down the country for Covid-19 fears then, “yes”, I agree with you.

Try telling that to the doctors and nurses in the Intensive Care Units, Peteem, and to the patients who need intensive care, and to their relatives and close friends. What's the alternative to shutting down the country? Would you just allow the numbers to increase and do nothing to try to prevent patients dying because there are too many of them for the doctors and nurses to cope with and not enough ventilators?


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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Meter
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 9:33 am 
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EtcumSpiri22-0 wrote:
The flu didn't shut down the country last year or the year before or the year before that..

As of Feb 3, 2020:
"The flu remains a higher threat to U.S. public health than the new coronavirus.
This flu season alone has sickened at least 19 million across the U.S. and led to 10,000 deaths and 180,000 hospitalizations."

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/03/the-flu ... virus.html

There are two things you have chosen to ignore, Etcum:
(1) The flu does not cause Intensive Care Units to be massively overwhelmed.
(2) The numbers of Covid-19 cases and deaths are increasing exponentially, and we don't know how many deaths there will be.


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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Meter
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 11:48 am 
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"This is the Beginning of the End of the Pandemic" - Dr. Stephen Smith Announces Hydroxy-Choloroquine Study that is "Game Changer" in Battle Against Coronavirus


https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/0 ... rus-video/

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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Meter
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 12:12 pm 
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I recently read a comment that a person saw Chinese family members in the US at Lowes buying up all of the face masks every time they stocked the shelves ... as soon as the virus hit Wuhan.
That is why there are not enough masks here now.

Chinese Woman Hoards Face Masks To Prevent Americans From Buying Any
Chinese woman is shown going from store to store to buy up masks so that Americans can’t use them

ttps://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/04 ... ing-video/

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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Meter
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 12:29 pm 
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Couple things:

(1) while Italy might be overcounting deaths from Covid-19 that are occurring in the hospital, they might be undercounting because they're not counting deaths from people who died at home (same thing in China - they did not count deaths from people who died at home);

(2) refusing a vaccine could be, under certain circumstances, contrary to the common good, in which case asserting a right to refuse is liberalism.

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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Meter
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 12:38 pm 
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Denise Dee wrote:
EtcumSpiri22-0 wrote:
The flu didn't shut down the country last year or the year before or the year before that..

As of Feb 3, 2020:
"The flu remains a higher threat to U.S. public health than the new coronavirus.
This flu season alone has sickened at least 19 million across the U.S. and led to 10,000 deaths and 180,000 hospitalizations."

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/03/the-flu ... virus.html

There are two things you have chosen to ignore, Etcum:
(1) The flu does not cause Intensive Care Units to be massively overwhelmed.
(2) The numbers of Covid-19 cases and deaths are increasing exponentially, and we don't know how many deaths there will be.


The model is flawed ... that's the point.

Example:
In Italy 99% of those that died in their mid/late 70's or 80's, had current sickness when they contracted COVID 19.

49% had 3 or more ongoing sicknesses. 25% had 2, 25% had one.

The medical community routinely counted COVID 19 as cause of death without showing clinical evidence.

Another example of an emerging pattern of shoddy stats:
A man fell and hit his head and ultimately died. He was counted as a COVID 19 victim because he had tested positive.

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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Meter
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 1:55 pm 
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EtcumSpiri22-0 wrote:
Denise Dee wrote:
EtcumSpiri22-0 wrote:
The flu didn't shut down the country last year or the year before or the year before that..

As of Feb 3, 2020:
"The flu remains a higher threat to U.S. public health than the new coronavirus.
This flu season alone has sickened at least 19 million across the U.S. and led to 10,000 deaths and 180,000 hospitalizations."

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/03/the-flu ... virus.html

There are two things you have chosen to ignore, Etcum:
(1) The flu does not cause Intensive Care Units to be massively overwhelmed.
(2) The numbers of Covid-19 cases and deaths are increasing exponentially, and we don't know how many deaths there will be.


The model is flawed ... that's the point.

Example:
In Italy 99% of those that died in their mid/late 70's or 80's, had current sickness when they contracted COVID 19.

49% had 3 or more ongoing sicknesses. 25% had 2, 25% had one.

The medical community routinely counted COVID 19 as cause of death without showing clinical evidence.

Another example of an emerging pattern of shoddy stats:
A man fell and hit his head and ultimately died. He was counted as a COVID 19 victim because he had tested positive.

That’s all very well, but there is a reality which you are refusing to acknowledge: The Intensive Care Units in Italy and Spain have been overwhelmed, and there is a very imminent risk, with the way the numbers are increasing exponentially, that the Intensive Care Units in the United States, and in the UK, will very shortly be overwhelmed too.

So let me ask you the same question I asked Peteem: What's the alternative to shutting down the country? Would you just allow the numbers to increase and do nothing to try to prevent patients dying because there are too many of them for the doctors and nurses to cope with and not enough ventilators?


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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Meter
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 3:00 pm 
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EtcumSpiri22-0 wrote:
I recently read a comment that a person saw Chinese family members in the US at Lowes buying up all of the face masks every time they stocked the shelves ... as soon as the virus hit Wuhan.
That is why there are not enough masks here now.

Chinese Woman Hoards Face Masks To Prevent Americans From Buying Any
Chinese woman is shown going from store to store to buy up masks so that Americans can’t use them

ttps://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/04 ... ing-video/


Gateway Pundit??? Seriously??? You really don't know that Gateway Pundit is an absurd and untrustworthy wacko site that specializes in conspiracy theories, rumors, and outright lies, and is about as reliable a news source as The Onion -- which at least is trying to be a joke?

You might find this informative:
https://www.mediamatters.org/gateway-pu ... rdly-wrong

As for your Chinese woman, even if she existed (which I doubt...), didn't it occur to you that the reason she was buying masks might be for her own use and that of her family? Wearing face masks in public in winter is a longstanding Chinese custom, and if you lived somewhere that had a large Chinese population, as I do, you would have been seeing this for years. I am far more worried about the selfishness of my white American-born neighbors who for some unknown reason (this is a lung disease we're talking about, not diarrhea...) have panicked and bought up all the toilet paper.

Getting back to Covid-19, what sets it apart from ordinary influenza is the mortality rate. You note that 19 million people had the flu this winter, and that 10,000 of them died. That gives you a mortality rate of about 0.05% -- that is, 1/20th of one per cent of the people who catch the flu die from it. This minute, as I write this, there have been 331,365 cases of Covid-19 illness in the USA, and 9,479 people have died from it. This gives a mortality rate of 2.86%, or more than fifty times the mortality rate of ordinary flu. If you have the same 19 million people catch Covid-19, you are talking about something like 550,000 people dying. Beyond that, though, you have 19 million people catch the flu even though millions have been vaccinated. There is no vaccine for Covid-19, and if no preventive measures are taken, you should therefore expect more people to get it.

The last time we had a similar situation was the Spanish Flu pandemic of 1918. There were no vaccines, and social distancing was not practiced in a timely manner. As a result, a quarter of the people in the US came down with the disease, and about 675,000 died in this country alone. That number of deaths was reached when the US had a population only one-third of what it has today, so if you want a better idea of what to expect if we all just go about our business as usual, try tripling it. For my part, being neither a worshipper of Donald Trump nor a reader of Gateway Pundit, I don't find the likely possibility of more than two million otherwise avoidable deaths in this country to be an acceptable trade-off for "getting things back to normal". I am therefore more than happy to forgo the dubious pleasures of crowding into a restaurant, shopping mall, or political rally in a sports stadium in order to reduce the risk of infection for myself, my family, and my neighbors -- including the ones whose politics are different from my own.

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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Meter
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 3:42 pm 
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Surgeon General Jerome Adams on Sunday warned that the next week of the coronavirus pandemic will be a major moment for Americans — similar to the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks — and urged governors who have not issued statewide stay-at-home orders to “do their part.”

As of Sunday morning, nine governors ― all Republicans ― have so far refused to issue statewide stay-at-home orders despite calls from public health experts and medical professionals to do so.

Asked what he would tell those governors if he were advising them, Adams told ABC’s “This Week” that he would urge them to follow the White House’s coronavirus guidelines to slow the spread in 30 days, which include recommendations to work from home if possible and avoid discretionary travel.

“The next week is going to be our Pearl Harbor moment,” Adams said. “It’s going to be our 9/11 moment. It’s going to be the hardest moment for many Americans in their entire lives. And we really need to understand that if we want to flatten that curve and get through to the other side, everyone needs to do their part.

“If you can’t give us 30 days, governors, give us a week,” the vice admiral continued. “Give us what you can so that we don’t overwhelm our health care systems over this next week and then let’s reassess at that point.”

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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Meter
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 3:45 pm 
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Denise Dee wrote:
EtcumSpiri22-0 wrote:
Denise Dee wrote:
EtcumSpiri22-0 wrote:
The flu didn't shut down the country last year or the year before or the year before that..

As of Feb 3, 2020:
"The flu remains a higher threat to U.S. public health than the new coronavirus.
This flu season alone has sickened at least 19 million across the U.S. and led to 10,000 deaths and 180,000 hospitalizations."

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/03/the-flu ... virus.html

There are two things you have chosen to ignore, Etcum:
(1) The flu does not cause Intensive Care Units to be massively overwhelmed.
(2) The numbers of Covid-19 cases and deaths are increasing exponentially, and we don't know how many deaths there will be.


The model is flawed ... that's the point.

Example:
In Italy 99% of those that died in their mid/late 70's or 80's, had current sickness when they contracted COVID 19.

49% had 3 or more ongoing sicknesses. 25% had 2, 25% had one.

The medical community routinely counted COVID 19 as cause of death without showing clinical evidence.

Another example of an emerging pattern of shoddy stats:
A man fell and hit his head and ultimately died. He was counted as a COVID 19 victim because he had tested positive.

That’s all very well, but there is a reality which you are refusing to acknowledge: The Intensive Care Units in Italy and Spain have been overwhelmed, and there is a very imminent risk, with the way the numbers are increasing exponentially, that the Intensive Care Units in the United States, and in the UK, will very shortly be overwhelmed too.

So let me ask you the same question I asked Peteem: What's the alternative to shutting down the country? Would you just allow the numbers to increase and do nothing to try to prevent patients dying because there are too many of them for the doctors and nurses to cope with and not enough ventilators?


The IMHE study predicted over 121,000 Americans would be hospitalized by April 1 2020 over the Coronavirus. The actual number was 31,142.

The CDC used the IMHE model to base their numbers on. The model was way off in its predictions.

https://twitter.com/seanmdav/status/124 ... 95777?s=20

https://twitter.com/seanmdav/status/124 ... 95777?s=20

The Navy hospital ship USNS Comfort docked in in New York City on Monday, March 30, 2020. The ship was expected to bolster a besieged New York City health care system by treating non-coronavirus patients while hospitals treat people with COVID-19.After three days in the harbor three patients have been transferred to the hospital ship.

U.S. Naval Ship Mercy, docked in Los Angeles, has had a total of 15 patients, officials said.

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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Meter
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 4:31 pm 
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Custos wrote:
EtcumSpiri22-0 wrote:
I recently read a comment that a person saw Chinese family members in the US at Lowes buying up all of the face masks every time they stocked the shelves ... as soon as the virus hit Wuhan.
That is why there are not enough masks here now.

Chinese Woman Hoards Face Masks To Prevent Americans From Buying Any
Chinese woman is shown going from store to store to buy up masks so that Americans can’t use them

ttps://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/04 ... ing-video/


Gateway Pundit??? Seriously??? You really don't know that Gateway Pundit is an absurd and untrustworthy wacko site that specializes in conspiracy theories, rumors, and outright lies, and is about as reliable a news source as The Onion -- which at least is trying to be a joke?

You might find this informative:
https://www.mediamatters.org/gateway-pu ... rdly-wrong



____

You might find this informative
This is just a few from the "newspaper of record,"
____
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/1922- ... es-hitler/
_____
Search: Jayson Blair
_____

In 1920, Walter Lippmann and Charles Merz investigated the NYT news coverage of the Russian Revolution from 1917 to 1920. The study, published as a supplement of The New Republic concluded that the Times' reporting was neither unbiased nor accurate. The newspaper's news stories were not based on facts, but "were determined by the hopes of the men who made up the news organisations." The newspaper referred to events that had not taken place, atrocities that did not exist, and reported no fewer than 91 times that the Bolshevik regime was on the verge of collapse.

____
In 1999, the Times ran a series of stories about alleged theft of classified documents from Los Alamos National Lab in New Mexico.[7][8][9] The prime suspect, Taiwan-born U.S. citizen Dr. Wen Ho Lee, had his name leaked to the Times by U.S. Energy Department officials.[10][11][12] Dr. Lee was indicted on 59 counts and jailed in solitary confinement for 278 days until he accepted a plea bargain from the government.[13][14] The alleged breach of security became a catalyst for the creation of the National Nuclear Security Administration (NNSA, not to be confused with the NSA and the NSC). This was similar to how the 9/11 attacks led to the creation of the Department of Homeland Security. Dr. Lee was released after the government's case could not be proven.[15][16]

____

In their 2007 book Until Proven Innocent: Political Correctness and the Shameful Injustice of the Duke Lacrosse Case, KC Johnson and Stuart Taylor, Jr. sharply criticize The New York Times for their editorial judgment and its effect on the case investigation. It claims that the original reports by Joe Drape tended to exonerate the accused players, which contradicted Times' editorial stance. This led to Drape's quick dismissal and replacement by Duff Wilson who took a pro prosecution stance.[57]

Daniel Okrent, former Times ombudsman admitted to the bias in the Times coverage of the case. He said,

"It was too delicious a story. It conformed too well to too many preconceived notions of too many in the press: white over black, rich over poor, athletes over non-athletes, men over women, educated over non-educated. Wow. That's a package of sins that really fit the preconceptions of a lot of us."

____

After the Times tweeted a cartoon portraying Trump and Putin as a gay lovers, LGBT activist and Democratic Rep. Brian Sims said it's time to stop the homophobic jokes. American transgender activist Jeffrey Marsh said "to have a group that's as well-established as The New York Times personally attacking you feels horrendous."

A spokesperson for The Times defended the animation.
____
On April 25, 2019, The New York Times's international edition included a cartoon featuring U.S. President Donald Trump and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. Trump was shown wearing a kippah and Netanyahu was displayed as Trump's dog wearing a collar with the Star of David. The Israeli edition of The Times was published at the end of Passover. After criticism from public and religious figures, The Times admitted to using "anti-Semitic tropes".[116]
____

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Y ... troversies

____

KLAVAN: Not Satire: The Times Really Is A Former Newspaper

The Times has descended over the last two decades from a great, if liberal-leaning, paper, to a second-rate and sophomoric collection of left-wing hit pieces.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/klavan-n ... rew-klavan

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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Meter
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 5:08 pm 
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EtcumSpiri22-0 wrote:
You might find this informative
This is just a few from the "newspaper of record,"


Exactly how is any of this supposed to support the idea that Gateway Pundit is a reliable and trustworthy source of news? :scratch:

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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Meter
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 5:16 pm 
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You haven't yet responded to my question Etcum:

What's the alternative to shutting down the country? Would you just allow the numbers to increase and do nothing to try to prevent patients dying because there are too many of them for the doctors and nurses to cope with and not enough ventilators?


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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Meter
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 5:25 pm 
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Custos wrote:
EtcumSpiri22-0 wrote:
You might find this informative
This is just a few from the "newspaper of record,"


Exactly how is any of this supposed to support the idea that Gateway Pundit is a reliable and trustworthy source of news? :scratch:


I'm using your logic. You changed the topic from the facts related to a specific issue, to trustworthy news sources.
The Times is a news source.
I could go on for a good clip with lots of mainstream news sources.

The question is ... what is Your point.

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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Meter
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 5:53 pm 
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Denise Dee wrote:
You haven't yet responded to my question Etcum:

What's the alternative to shutting down the country? Would you just allow the numbers to increase and do nothing to try to prevent patients dying because there are too many of them for the doctors and nurses to cope with and not enough ventilators?


The point is that if you start with bad information and selectively choose what you want to hear you can do anything you want and call it good.

South Dakota is following alternative options.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... sR?ocid=sf

This breakthrough is being filtered out for some reason.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2kUUGV ... Fp7b-XzzVc

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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Meter
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 6:19 pm 
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EtcumSpiri22-0 wrote:
Custos wrote:
EtcumSpiri22-0 wrote:
You might find this informative
This is just a few from the "newspaper of record,"


Exactly how is any of this supposed to support the idea that Gateway Pundit is a reliable and trustworthy source of news? :scratch:


I'm using your logic.


No, you are not. You are in fact using no logic at all, and are doing exactly what you accuse me of doing: namely, changing the topic.

Quote:
The question is ... what is Your point.

I thought my point (at least in so far as the Gateway Pundit is concerned) was fairly obvious: you regularly link to the Gateway Pundit, and seem to think it is a reliable news source. You then claim to make points based on the Gateway Pundit materials you have linked. However, the Gateway Pundit is not a reliable news source. It is instead a wacko site of right-wing crackpottery, which regularly posts things that are misleading, distorted, or outright false as part of its attempts to "advance" its lunatic points of view. It is completely untrustworthy, and so presenting links to it here as if it contains worthwhile information is risible, while trying to base cogent arguments on its arrant nonsense is fatuous.

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JOHNSON: "Sir, I have never slept an hour less, nor eat an ounce less meat. I would have knocked the factious dogs on the head, to be sure; but I was not vexed."


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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Meter
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 7:30 pm 
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Custos wrote:
EtcumSpiri22-0 wrote:
Custos wrote:
EtcumSpiri22-0 wrote:
You might find this informative
This is just a few from the "newspaper of record,"


Exactly how is any of this supposed to support the idea that Gateway Pundit is a reliable and trustworthy source of news? :scratch:


I'm using your logic.


No, you are not. You are in fact using no logic at all, and are doing exactly what you accuse me of doing: namely, changing the topic.


The information I posted is accurate.
You dont want to talk about that.

You started down a rabbit trail. I followed it to its logical conclusion. Take it or leave it.

You want to talk about news sources... start a thread.

Or better yet, create an exhaustive list of news sources you accept.

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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Meter
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 9:20 pm 
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EtcumSpiri22-0 wrote:
Denise Dee wrote:
You haven't yet responded to my question Etcum:

What's the alternative to shutting down the country? Would you just allow the numbers to increase and do nothing to try to prevent patients dying because there are too many of them for the doctors and nurses to cope with and not enough ventilators?


The point is that if you start with bad information and selectively choose what you want to hear you can do anything you want and call it good.

South Dakota is following alternative options.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... sR?ocid=sf

This breakthrough is being filtered out for some reason.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2kUUGV ... Fp7b-XzzVc

Can you just answer the question, Etcum, instead of posting links or making other points. You can post links and make other points after you answer the question, which is the most pertinent question:

What's the alternative to shutting down the country? Would you just allow the numbers to increase and do nothing to try to prevent patients dying because there are too many of them for the doctors and nurses to cope with and not enough ventilators?

Any further cowardly avoidance of answering the question will not go unnoticed!


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