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 Post subject: Re: New K of C 4th Degree Regalia.
PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 10:49 am 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Two posts on my FB feed say that it's $535 for the old full 4th degree outfit, purchase of which is not, BTW, required unless you want to be in the honor guard. The cost of the new outfit is about $500.


If the price is too high, you can rent a tuxedo. Also great for weddings, etc.

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 Post subject: Re: New K of C 4th Degree Regalia.
PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 10:14 pm 
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Lee said many members he’s interacted with are excited about the changes because it brings the uniform “more in line with other military service organizations because it connects us as patriotic organizations.” There are also members who “don’t like change, so they’re already up in arms.


Which is precisely why I do not like it. I know I am going to get some serious heat from this post.....so be it.

Seems we have forgotten that we serve the Prince of Peace. American Catholics, at least those I know here and elsewhere, seem reticent to oppose the constant flow of BS from DC which gets us into war after war after war. We serve the military/industrial complex that Eisenhower warned us about, and anyone who doesn't toe the line enjoys the privilege of being called "traitor" or "unpatriotic." I am in favor of a strong DEFENSIVE military. What we have in DC is an organization which is dedicated to empire-building and exporting our idea of "democracy," even to those countries who do not want it.

But don't listen to me. Listen to Major General Smedley Butler, winner of not one, but two Medals of Honor.

War is a Racket.

I'm not allowed to give out details of my 4th Degree ceremony, but I will say that I found it to be very disturbing from the aspect of glorifying war. Kind of like the television ads we see that show the young recruits all smiling as they go through boot camp, as if their little adventure in the Army will be all fun n games.

War should be our last resort. In America, it has become our first response.

I am in favor of what I call the "Porcupine Armed Forces." How many other animals will screw with a porcupine? They know very well to leave it alone lest they get really messed up by its defensive capabilities. We should, as a country, be bristling with quills (armaments, troops, etc.) so that everyone says "We don't want to mess with them." Perhaps if we had minded our own business over the last 60 years we wouldn't be so universally hated by so many people abroad. At least, that's the impression I get when I read foreign news feeds.

BTW - I own a Glock 9 for self-defense and can put a 6 inch pattern in a target at 12 feet. I'm not opposed to self-defense, but we have gone way beyond that in this country with our military. Our Holy Father begged George W. Bush not to invade Iraq. Bush ignored him - look at the mess we have to deal with now.


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 Post subject: Re: New K of C 4th Degree Regalia.
PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 10:52 pm 
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Light of the East wrote:
Kind of like the television ads we see that show the young recruits all smiling as they go through boot camp, as if their little adventure in the Army will be all fun n games.

And anyone who has been through Basic Training (myself included) will tell you that the worst possible thing you can do while you're there is smile. :nono:

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 Post subject: Re: New K of C 4th Degree Regalia.
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:17 am 
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Minority opinion, I know... but I think the new uniform is nice.

Watching elderly men sweat and puff in a tux + a cape during the summer - well, I think that if you are a Southern Catholic you know how you cringe for those guys.

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Last edited by kage_ar on Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: New K of C 4th Degree Regalia.
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:20 am 
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lbt wrote:
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Two posts on my FB feed say that it's $535 for the old full 4th degree outfit, purchase of which is not, BTW, required unless you want to be in the honor guard. The cost of the new outfit is about $500.


If the price is too high, you can rent a tuxedo. Also great for weddings, etc.


The Honor Guard attends some pre-planned events, but, for funerals - unless you live in a medium to large sized city - renting a tux can't just happen on short notice. Also, it is around $100 to rent a tux. If one cannot afford to buy a tux, chances are you don't have $100 available at the drop of a chapeau.

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 Post subject: Re: New K of C 4th Degree Regalia.
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:37 am 
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Yes, I think men who belong to the honor guard/color corps will have to buy a tux. Those who are 4th Degree but not part of the color corps can probably get buy with renting one for the occasions on which they will need it - though of course they will still have to buy the social baldric.

My pastor (whom I believe is 4th Degree himself and a big supporter of the Knights) is decidely unhappy about this.

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 Post subject: Re: New K of C 4th Degree Regalia.
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:39 am 
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I can't remember where I read this, but someone suggested that the new uniform is the Boomers' idea of what young men would want to wear (because it is more in line with what they would have wanted to wear as young men).

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 Post subject: Re: New K of C 4th Degree Regalia.
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:49 am 
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I don't object to revising the uniform, and I accept that doing so might be a good way to increase participation in the 4th degree. I just think they missed, badly, on what they chose, and topped it off by bungling the selection procedure and the announcement. Blindsiding guys at the convention with an idea run by no one outside the Board (and whatever consultants they hired) was a miserable idea. It would have been far better to say, "We need to change the uniform, and this is why: [explanation here]. We've come up with three [or four or whatever--not too many more] ideas, and we'd like to hear what you think about each."

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 Post subject: Re: New K of C 4th Degree Regalia.
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 10:43 am 
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Rorate Caeli has chimed in, and (I have to say) with surprising restraint, considering the source. https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2017/ ... ional.html

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 Post subject: Re: New K of C 4th Degree Regalia.
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 1:48 pm 
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kage_ar wrote:
Minority opinion, I know... but I think the new uniform is nice.

Watching elderly men sweat and puff in a tux + a cape during the summer - well, I think that if you are a Southern Catholic you know how you cringe for those guys.


Image



Sorry, but knowing that our priests and bishops work on hot summer days in these vestments, I'm not the one to have sympathy. There's at least four layers of clothing there. Suck it up, soldier!!!


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 Post subject: Re: New K of C 4th Degree Regalia.
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 1:49 pm 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
I don't object to revising the uniform, and I accept that doing so might be a good way to increase participation in the 4th degree. I just think they missed, badly, on what they chose, and topped it off by bungling the selection procedure and the announcement. Blindsiding guys at the convention with an idea run by no one outside the Board (and whatever consultants they hired) was a miserable idea. It would have been far better to say, "We need to change the uniform, and this is why: [explanation here]. We've come up with three [or four or whatever--not too many more] ideas, and we'd like to hear what you think about each."


:thumbsup:


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 Post subject: Re: New K of C 4th Degree Regalia.
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 2:01 pm 
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Light of the East wrote:
kage_ar wrote:
Minority opinion, I know... but I think the new uniform is nice.

Watching elderly men sweat and puff in a tux + a cape during the summer - well, I think that if you are a Southern Catholic you know how you cringe for those guys.


Image

Sorry, but knowing that our priests and bishops work on hot summer days in these vestments, I'm not the one to have sympathy. There's at least four layers of clothing there. Suck it up, soldier!!!


This topic has been addressed in the comments by more than a few 4th Degree Knights. They are unanimous in saying that whatever discomfort they experience wearing full regalia helps them to appreciate more the members of the priesthood, who are enduring the same heat and humidity in their street garb, covered by an alb, covered by a chasible and sometimes a cope and/or humeral veil as well. They consider it quite a privilege to suffer in the name of Our Lord while doing His service. You may consider it cringeworthy, but every single Knight who has mentioned the heat of the 4th Degree regalia described suffering that heat to be an honor and a privilege.

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 Post subject: Re: New K of C 4th Degree Regalia.
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 2:18 pm 
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Mrs. Timmy wrote:
Light of the East wrote:
kage_ar wrote:
Minority opinion, I know... but I think the new uniform is nice.

Watching elderly men sweat and puff in a tux + a cape during the summer - well, I think that if you are a Southern Catholic you know how you cringe for those guys.


Image

Sorry, but knowing that our priests and bishops work on hot summer days in these vestments, I'm not the one to have sympathy. There's at least four layers of clothing there. Suck it up, soldier!!!


This topic has been addressed in the comments by more than a few 4th Degree Knights. They are unanimous in saying that whatever discomfort they experience wearing full regalia helps them to appreciate more the members of the priesthood, who are enduring the same heat and humidity in their street garb, covered by an alb, covered by a chasible and sometimes a cope and/or humeral veil as well. They consider it quite a privilege to suffer in the name of Our Lord while doing His service. You may consider it cringeworthy, but every single Knight who has mentioned the heat of the 4th Degree regalia described suffering that heat to be an honor and a privilege.


:thumbsup: :thumbsup:


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 Post subject: Re: New K of C 4th Degree Regalia.
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 3:01 pm 
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Hey, Bro. Ed, that photo you posted didn't come from the student union at NATS, did it? What with the old gold-and-white and the wasps' nests they're wearing.... :troll

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 Post subject: Re: New K of C 4th Degree Regalia.
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 3:33 pm 
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Mrs. Timmy wrote:
Hey, Bro. Ed, that photo you posted didn't come from the student union at NATS, did it? What with the old gold-and-white and the wasps' nests they're wearing.... :troll


Play nice now, sis! ::):


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 Post subject: Re: New K of C 4th Degree Regalia.
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:15 pm 
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Light of the East wrote:
Mrs. Timmy wrote:
Hey, Bro. Ed, that photo you posted didn't come from the student union at NATS, did it? What with the old gold-and-white and the wasps' nests they're wearing.... :troll


Play nice now, sis! ::):


It's getting awfully close to football season, my brother.

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 Post subject: Re: New K of C 4th Degree Regalia.
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:08 pm 
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Mrs. Timmy wrote:
Light of the East wrote:
Mrs. Timmy wrote:
Hey, Bro. Ed, that photo you posted didn't come from the student union at NATS, did it? What with the old gold-and-white and the wasps' nests they're wearing.... :troll


Play nice now, sis! ::):


It's getting awfully close to football season, my brother.

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 Post subject: Re: New K of C 4th Degree Regalia.
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:38 pm 
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Response from Knights of Columbus:

http://www.kofc.org/en/news/releases/ne ... m-faq.html

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 Post subject: Re: New K of C 4th Degree Regalia.
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:53 pm 
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Call me cynical, but that release had "we did it because we wanted to and you just need to shut up and deal with it" written all over it. The only concession I see to the hue and cry was the $200 discount to those who purchased regalia after May 1 of this year. If they sought input during this alleged three-year planning process, it's the most secretive solicitation for input I've ever seen. And if they field-tested at Lourdes, I'd bet dollars to donuts they made sure unknowing Knights who just happened to be there didn't even get a hint as to what was going on.

I can see the field test now. Tester "How do you like my outfit?" Random pilgrim "I couldn't tell you. I'm here because I'm blind. But it feels nice." *Tester marks "positive response" on his tally.*

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 Post subject: Re: New K of C 4th Degree Regalia.
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 2:29 pm 
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Quote:
Q: Did members have input on this?

A: For years, supreme officers and directors have received comments from members and prospective members that the old regalia was a barrier to membership overall, or to membership in the Fourth Degree. No.
Fixed that for them :fyi:

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