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 Post subject: Re: New K of C 4th Degree Regalia.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 3:46 pm 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Right. The old suits say, "Knight!" The new suits say ... I'm not sure. "Would you like scones with your tea?"


I saw the old uniform in a picture just now. As a total outsider my first impression was that the suits said "college football mascot for a team named commodores, musketeers, cavaliers, or something similar."

If they really wanted to update the knight's uniform I would suggest robes, a lightsaber, and the rank of master.


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 Post subject: Re: New K of C 4th Degree Regalia.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 3:51 pm 
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GKC wrote:
Doom wrote:
I don't get the hate....it's just a suit and tie with a special K of C crest, what's wrong with that?


Sure. Good enough for the Masters, good enough for the Knights.

You just proved my point, ol' friend. It looks like it belongs at the clubhouse. Don't get me wrong; jacket and tie is not only appropriate for worship, it's sorely missed. Men look good in it. But the beret is a big "NO!" and the ensemble altogether isn't distinctive the way a 4th Degree Knight should be.

If the K of C is worried about declining numbers among their highest echelon, this ought to solve the problem, but not in the way they expect. It'll drive out the current membership and eliminate any incentive for new ones to replace them.

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 Post subject: Re: New K of C 4th Degree Regalia.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 3:59 pm 
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bumble wrote:
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Right. The old suits say, "Knight!" The new suits say ... I'm not sure. "Would you like scones with your tea?"


I saw the old uniform in a picture just now. As a total outsider my first impression was that the suits said "college football mascot for a team named commodores, musketeers, cavaliers, or something similar."

If they really wanted to update the knight's uniform I would suggest robes, a lightsaber, and the rank of master.

I could get behind this proposal.

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 Post subject: Re: New K of C 4th Degree Regalia.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:01 pm 
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Doom wrote:
Bombadil wrote:
I remember being a boy and the knights marching in with their swords and feather plume hats


For liturgical events, that's fine, but do you really want to wear that at something like a formal dinner?

They don't

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 Post subject: Re: New K of C 4th Degree Regalia.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:02 pm 
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kage_ar wrote:
From what I read it is still up to the individual councils if they want to wear plumes and tuxedos. This is an option.

It is the preferred option, which means the tuxedo, cape, and chapeau will soon be forbidden.

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 Post subject: Re: New K of C 4th Degree Regalia.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 5:03 pm 
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Guessing this is about lowering the cost of 4th degree. When DH was active in the Knights he stopped at 3rd degree because it was at least $1,000 to get suited out.

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 Post subject: Re: New K of C 4th Degree Regalia.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 5:47 pm 
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Mrs. Timmy wrote:
Next in a continuing line of "What Were They Thinking?" developments in men's wear: http://www.catholicsun.org/2017/08/02/k ... -uniforms/

They've gone from distinctive to disturbing, from noble to not-on-a-double-dog-dare, from classic to catastrophic. The new uniform looks like what would happen if The Book of Mormon and The Preppy Handbook had a baby, with Taps (the movie) as a surrogate mom. :nooo:

All y'all who are 4th Degree Knights, rise up against this madness! Please!



looks like something the donald would have worn at his prep school ::): ... sure glad i'm not 4th degree .... i'd have to be disobedient :fyi:

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 Post subject: Re: New K of C 4th Degree Regalia.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 5:49 pm 
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Mrs. Timmy wrote:
GKC wrote:
Doom wrote:
I don't get the hate....it's just a suit and tie with a special K of C crest, what's wrong with that?


Sure. Good enough for the Masters, good enough for the Knights.



You just proved my point, ol' friend. It looks like it belongs at the clubhouse. Don't get me wrong; jacket and tie is not only appropriate for worship, it's sorely missed. Men look good in it. But the beret is a big "NO!" and the ensemble altogether isn't distinctive the way a 4th Degree Knight should be.
If the K of C is worried about declining numbers among their highest echelon, this ought to solve the problem, but not in the way they expect. It'll drive out the current membership and eliminate any incentive for new ones to replace them.


Shazam! I never thought of it like that. You're right!!

Reminds me of the time there was a suggestion that our military themed high school band should cultivate a summer uniform, by replacing the military jackets, like unto the Air Force Class As of the 60s, the leather Sam Brown belts, with cross straps for the officers, and the service caps, substituting puffy shirts, gaucho hats and sashes, seasonally.

We buried the originator of that thought, without honors, on the 50 yard line.

Somebody's always got to be messing with stuff.

By the way ... no beret. No way.

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 Post subject: Re: New K of C 4th Degree Regalia.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 9:07 pm 
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kage_ar wrote:
Guessing this is about lowering the cost of 4th degree. When DH was active in the Knights he stopped at 3rd degree because it was at least $1,000 to get suited out.

Only 4th degree members who want to be part of the Honor Guard have to buy the full regalia.

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 Post subject: Re: New K of C 4th Degree Regalia.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 9:16 pm 
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Two posts on my FB feed say that it's $535 for the old full 4th degree outfit, purchase of which is not, BTW, required unless you want to be in the honor guard. The cost of the new outfit is about $500.

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 Post subject: Re: New K of C 4th Degree Regalia.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 9:31 pm 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Two posts on my FB feed say that it's $535 for the old full 4th degree outfit, purchase of which is not, BTW, required unless you want to be in the honor guard. The cost of the new outfit is about $500.

I've seen a couple people saying $1,000 or so, which suggests to me they're including the cost of the tuxedo.

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 Post subject: Re: New K of C 4th Degree Regalia.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 9:46 pm 
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It's also possible that's the price tag for becoming 4th Degree including fees etc.

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 Post subject: Re: New K of C 4th Degree Regalia.
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:27 am 
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Peregrinator wrote:
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Two posts on my FB feed say that it's $535 for the old full 4th degree outfit, purchase of which is not, BTW, required unless you want to be in the honor guard. The cost of the new outfit is about $500.

I've seen a couple people saying $1,000 or so, which suggests to me they're including the cost of the tuxedo.


Yep, heck last time I bought a men's suit it was around $400 with shirt and all the accoutrements. That was a decade ago, I'd wager $500 for a tuxedo is a STEAL

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 Post subject: Re: New K of C 4th Degree Regalia.
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:33 am 
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kage_ar wrote:
Peregrinator wrote:
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Two posts on my FB feed say that it's $535 for the old full 4th degree outfit, purchase of which is not, BTW, required unless you want to be in the honor guard. The cost of the new outfit is about $500.

I've seen a couple people saying $1,000 or so, which suggests to me they're including the cost of the tuxedo.


Yep, heck last time I bought a men's suit it was around $400 with shirt and all the accoutrements. That was a decade ago, I'd wager $500 for a tuxedo is a STEAL

Y'all don't do your due diligence in shopping, do you? It took me about five seconds to find this. https://www.menswearhouse.com/mens-clot ... lwear-sale

If I REALLY wanted to do some digging, I'm sure I could beat it. A few trips to Goodwill and consignment stores would get me a tux for under $100, I guarantee it.

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 Post subject: Re: New K of C 4th Degree Regalia.
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 9:03 am 
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Mrs. Timmy wrote:
kage_ar wrote:
Peregrinator wrote:
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Two posts on my FB feed say that it's $535 for the old full 4th degree outfit, purchase of which is not, BTW, required unless you want to be in the honor guard. The cost of the new outfit is about $500.

I've seen a couple people saying $1,000 or so, which suggests to me they're including the cost of the tuxedo.


Yep, heck last time I bought a men's suit it was around $400 with shirt and all the accoutrements. That was a decade ago, I'd wager $500 for a tuxedo is a STEAL

Y'all don't do your due diligence in shopping, do you? It took me about five seconds to find this. https://www.menswearhouse.com/mens-clot ... lwear-sale

If I REALLY wanted to do some digging, I'm sure I could beat it. A few trips to Goodwill and consignment stores would get me a tux for under $100, I guarantee it.


Sure a clearance sale is great, if they have your size! The first one of at that link that was black, 54 Long is the only size available.

Consignment and second hand store goods vary wildly by region.

Those are the exceptions. Quality men's suits are expensive.

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 Post subject: Re: New K of C 4th Degree Regalia.
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 9:07 am 
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Now if the Knights wanted to do themselves a favor, they would have an internal "community board" where members could sell/exchange formalwear to each other (size changes, etc.)....

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 Post subject: Re: New K of C 4th Degree Regalia.
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:05 pm 
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well there ya go

Quote:
.....
In light of this significant change, I thought it would be helpful to address some of the questions that have been asked about the new uniform.

The cape and chapeau, while popular among some Fourth Degree members, have become dated and are increasingly cited as a reason that eligible Catholic men, especially young men, do not join the Knights of Columbus.

Today there are nearly 2 million members of the Order, but only 358,000 of them are Fourth Degree Knights — less than 20 percent. The old regalia was one reason often given by brother Knights for why they did not want to advance to the Fourth Degree.

We understand that some Fourth Degree members are fond of the old regalia. The cape and chapeau regalia will still be allowed, for a time, in those assemblies and districts that wish to use it, though the preference is for the new uniform.

Ceremonial swords will continue to be part of the Fourth Degree.

The new uniform is designed to be much more versatile than the older regalia and can be worn at a much wider range of functions.

Our choice of uniform, while important, has always been ancillary to the work we do carrying out the principles of charity, unity, fraternity and patriotism, and this should always be the case.
We have been testing the new uniform over the past year with key groups of Knights, including those brother Knights who participate in our annual Warriors to Lourdes Pilgrimage. The feedback we received from these groups has been very positive.

During the convention, the Good of the Order Committee spoke in words I wish to make my own:

“We commend all of the faithful Sir Knights who have proudly worn the Fourth Degree regalia, bringing much respect to the Order. With the new Fourth Degree uniform, recently approved by the Board of Directors, this honor and respect associated with Sir Knights will remain, and it will open the door more widely for a new generation to join their ranks. In a spirit of unity, let us assist with a smooth transition to this new uniform and encourage it to be worn with great dignity and pride.”

Fraternally,

Carl A. Anderson
Supreme Knight

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 Post subject: Re: New K of C 4th Degree Regalia.
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 10:37 am 
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Have I gotten to be too cynical with age or does the letter fs posted actually seem to say "This is what we want to do; we asked all of our contacts who stand to profit from this, as well as anyone else we could scare up who doesn't have the chops to tell us this is a really bad idea, and painstakingly managed to keep it from those who really have a dog in this hunt. Then we presented it to the hoi polloi and the public at the same time so that everyone knows who's in the 'inner circle' of the KofC and who isn't."

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 Post subject: Re: New K of C 4th Degree Regalia.
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:03 pm 
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The Turnip:

Knights of Columbus Vote to Wear BDUs 'Just Like Everybody Else at Mass'

"Everybody at Mass these days is dressed casually," said 4th-degree K of C Jerry Fitzgerald (known to his friends as "FitzDitto"). "The Supreme Knight took a lot of heat for ditching the capes and tuxedos for the new scaled-down Knights of Columbus uniform. Why not go all the way and just wear fatigues?"

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 Post subject: Re: New K of C 4th Degree Regalia.
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 10:29 pm 
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It is pronounced 'tuxado."
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