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Is the use of Our Lord's name in this way offensive?
http://forums.avemariaradio.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=133093
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Author:  Max Kolbe [ Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is the use of Our Lord's name in this way offensive?

The Second Commandment and passages like 2146 and 2155 in the Catechism are not subjective opinions, are they?

Author:  Doom [ Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is the use of Our Lord's name in this way offensive?

Knight Templar wrote:
Max Kolbe wrote:
KT, independent of whether you have been oppressed by moderators or whether it should matter what other people here think, there is the matter of the Second Commandment and what God thinks.


I respect your opinion. I would not want to knowingly offend you. In fact, in fairness, I admit that in the one post where I said "for Christ's sake" I was genuinely p'd off, and upon reflection I should not have done that. Actually, I shouldn't have even let myself get that mad over a thread in the first place.

But the casual "Good Lord" or "My God" is not offensive TO ME. Maybe to you and others it is, but not to me. That is a point being missed here: Many people are offended by different things for whatever reason. I understand that. But I don't like when people speak of subjective things in absolutes, you know? Someone cannot just absolutely say "So-and So is offensive. Period." Because maybe other people think otherwise. If I see something bad, for example, and mutter to myself "Oh my Lord", I just don't see it as bad. If someone else does, that's fine, and that's their OPINION, but it is a subjective opinion, not objective fact.


What you really need to do is take an anger management class, and learn to stop flipping out and throwing a massive tantrum over every minor disagreement you have with someone.

Author:  Benedetta [ Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is the use of Our Lord's name in this way offensive?

Knight Templar wrote:
Again, in your opinion. Not mine.


It's not a matter of opinion.

Author:  DesertSailor [ Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is the use of Our Lord's name in this way offensive?

Benedetta wrote:
Knight Templar wrote:
Again, in your opinion. Not mine.


It's not a matter of opinion.

No it isn't. It's a mortal sin.

Author:  Knight Templar [ Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is the use of Our Lord's name in this way offensive?

DesertSailor wrote:
Benedetta wrote:
Knight Templar wrote:
Again, in your opinion. Not mine.
It's not a matter of opinion.

No it isn't. It's a mortal sin.



I want to get out of the thread, and I will, but I can't let that abuse pass:

1857 - For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: "Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent.

I know that what I said is not offensive in the abstract, although it may be offensive to some people here. For my saying "oh my God" to be a mortal sin, I had to do it with "full knowledge" that it was a mortal sin. But I don't think it is, and I don't see it that way, so it ain't. The Pope is going to have infallibly proclaim that phrase is a mortal sin before I am convinced it is. Your judgemntal high horse is just a leeeeetle too high up in the clouds there.

Author:  The M Word [ Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is the use of Our Lord's name in this way offensive?

WHen I teach classes in communication, I always emphasize that communication is not only what you said, but what the other person heard. What images did you place in someone's head? With this in mind, communication comes with a responsibility. WHile you may not be offended by a casual expletive or as may be the case a vulgar expletive, you have a duty to no place unwanted images in the minds of others.

There are many on this board who are extremely plain in their speech. I believe Doom's favorite rendition of people whose fathers are not married to their mothers goes along that lines. For most that is not causing undue concern. However, when you use the Lord's name in vain, even if you may not have wrong intentions, you cause the little voice in my mind that reads your words into brain to take the Lord's name in vain and whether your intentions are good or bad, everyone who read your post, has now taken the Lord's name in vain mentally along with you. You are responsible for that. THose who do not choose to use the Lord's name in such a casual manner are right to rail back about you putting such a thing in their head. That does not make them girly or less manly, etc. It makes them more respectful of the Lord.

Author:  DesertSailor [ Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is the use of Our Lord's name in this way offensive?

Knight Templar wrote:
DesertSailor wrote:
Benedetta wrote:
Knight Templar wrote:
Again, in your opinion. Not mine.
It's not a matter of opinion.

No it isn't. It's a mortal sin.



I want to get out of the thread, and I will, but I can't let that abuse pass:

1857 - For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: "Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent.

I know that what I said is not offensive in the abstract, although it may be offensive to some people here. For my saying "oh my God" to be a mortal sin, I had to do it with "full knowledge" that it was a mortal sin. But I don't think it is, and I don't see it that way, so it ain't. The Pope is going to have infallibly proclaim that phrase is a mortal sin before I am convinced it is. Your judgemntal high horse is just a leeeeetle too high up in the clouds there.


"Oh my God" is not a mortal sin. Saying Jesus Christ as an expletive is.

Author:  Knight Templar [ Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is the use of Our Lord's name in this way offensive?

The M Word wrote:
WHen I teach classes in communication, I always emphasize that communication is not only what you said, but what the other person heard.........

Roger that. But what they heard cannot change my intent or what I felt in my heart..

The M Word wrote:
.......What images did you place in someone's head? With this in mind, communication comes with a responsibility. WHile you may not be offended by a casual expletive or as may be the case a vulgar expletive, you have a duty to no place unwanted images in the minds of others........


Well if that's the case, then Doom has commited multiple mortal sins for the snotty way he continually talks to me. I don't mind playing by those rules as long as everyone plays by those rules.

The M Word wrote:
.........There are many on this board who are extremely plain in their speech. I believe Doom's favorite rendition of people whose fathers are not married to their mothers goes along that lines........

I am not surprised at the hypocrisy.

The M Word wrote:
..........However, when you use the Lord's name in vain, even if you may not have wrong intentions, you cause the little voice in my mind that reads your words into brain to take the Lord's name in vain and whether your intentions are good or bad, everyone who read your post, has now taken the Lord's name in vain mentally along with you. You are responsible for that.........


There ain't no way on earth I am responsible for what other people THINK. Good grief man, I could use that to blame everyone from here to kingdom come for every crappy thing that floats through my head.

Author:  Obi-Wan Kenobi [ Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is the use of Our Lord's name in this way offensive?

Heribert Jone, in Moral Theology wrote:
I. Blasphemy is any speech or gesture that contains contempt for or insult to God. It is always mortally sinful.

It suffices that a person be conscious of the meaning of the words or signs used; it is not necessary that he have the direct intention to offer indignity to God.

...
II. Profanity, or the disrespectful use of the Holy Name in anger or thoughtlessly, is in itself only a venial sin.

Profanity may be seriously wrong if the anger that causes it is directed against God or if it appears, objectively, at least, that one intends thereby to vent his anger against most sacred objects. It may also be seriously sinful because of scandal or an erroneous conscience.

Author:  faithfulservant [ Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is the use of Our Lord's name in this way offensive?

read her post again slowly and maybe you'll catch on terry

Author:  The M Word [ Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is the use of Our Lord's name in this way offensive?

ANd many people are responsible for the crappy things that float in your head. The fact that you allow them to float crap in your head repeatedly is your responsibility. If I search for an inoffensive key word on the internet and get a site where the first page is graphic porn, someone is responsible for putting that image in my head. If I return to that site and allow those images to be placed in my head, I am responsible.

When you posted the Lord's name in vain and all of us read it, you were responsible -- there was no warning -- BOOM, there it was and my mind had read it. If you are allowed to continue to do so on this board, then we are saying that this board, as a Catholic board, has decided that the commandment against taking the Lord's name in vain does not apply. At that point the mods of this board share responsibility for what you are placing in the heads of others. This is why it is an issue.

Author:  St Veronica [ Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is the use of Our Lord's name in this way offensive?

Well so far 12 people to 1 think it's offensive.


SV

Author:  Knight Templar [ Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is the use of Our Lord's name in this way offensive?

St Veronica wrote:
Well so far 12 people to 1 think it's offensive.
SV

I think they are voting out of dislike for me more than anything else, not that I really care. Actually, since the OP still bears my name and I didn't write any of it, I'd appreciate it if it were locked.

Author:  Obi-Wan Kenobi [ Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is the use of Our Lord's name in this way offensive?

When The Passion of the Christ first came out, nearly the entire seminary went to see it as a group. We were walking out of the theater in complete silence when it was over--not because we had been ordered to do that, but because there was nothing to say. Then someone (not a seminarian) shouted our Lord's Name (two word version) in anger at someone else. It felt as if I had been smacked in the face.

That's when I intuitively understood why it's always wrong to speak that way.

Author:  Knight Templar [ Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is the use of Our Lord's name in this way offensive?

Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
When The Passion of the Christ first came out, nearly the entire seminary went to see it as a group. We were walking out of the theater in complete silence when it was over--not because we had been ordered to do that, but because there was nothing to say. Then someone (not a seminarian) shouted our Lord's Name (two word version) in anger at someone else. It felt as if I had been smacked in the face.

That's when I intuitively understood why it's always wrong to speak that way.


Did the film itself offend you? Many people WERE offended by it. Does that make Mel Gibson a mortal sinner for offending people with his film?

Author:  Max Kolbe [ Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is the use of Our Lord's name in this way offensive?

Knight Templar wrote:
Did the film itself offend you? Many people WERE offended by it. Does that make Mel Gibson a mortal sinner for offending people with his film?

Are you a moral relativist? (I ask that sincerely, not as a rhetorical question to bait you.)

In other words, do you think there are things that are objectively wrong, and not just wrong in someone's opinion?

Author:  The M Word [ Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is the use of Our Lord's name in this way offensive?

Knight Templar wrote:
St Veronica wrote:
Well so far 12 people to 1 think it's offensive.
SV

I think they are voting out of dislike for me more than anything else, not that I really care. Actually, since the OP still bears my name and I didn't write any of it, I'd appreciate it if it were locked.


If there is one thing that I have always noted about this board, people do not choose sides by who they like or dislike. I have seen Catholics arguing with some foul atheists (they really were foul it is not a general statement about atheists) and the Catholic has been in error on something. I have seen other Catholics take a position counter to that Catholic they like and side with a foul atheist. Nobody is bearing false witness because they dislike you. To accuse them of breaking the commandment against bearing false witness lacks charity.

Author:  Obi-Wan Kenobi [ Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is the use of Our Lord's name in this way offensive?

You will note in the section I quoted above from a moral theology handbook that Desert Sailor was wrong to state that the misuse of the name of Our Lord is always a mortal sin. (Please note that I am arguing against DS here.)

Author:  Tired [ Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is the use of Our Lord's name in this way offensive?

KT, how on earth can you not find this objectively sinful? Seriously? You are taking the Lord's name in vain without question.

Author:  St Veronica [ Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is the use of Our Lord's name in this way offensive?

Knight Templar wrote:
St Veronica wrote:
Well so far 12 people to 1 think it's offensive.
SV

I think they are voting out of dislike for me more than anything else, not that I really care. Actually, since the OP still bears my name and I didn't write any of it, I'd appreciate it if it were locked.



You know it's quite prideful to think that the reason is due to dislike of you.


SV

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