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 Post subject: Re: I love dogs too, but, still......
PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 12:30 am 
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I know they don't view the Eucharist the same way that we do but :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: I love dogs too, but, still......
PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 1:37 am 
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Lonevoice wrote:
I know they don't view the Eucharist the same way that we do but :shock:



Depends on which of them you ask, as to how it's viewed. But this is an aberration, anywhere.


GKC

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 Post subject: Re: I love dogs too, but, still......
PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 1:40 am 
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Rushintuit wrote:
Some years ago, our Bishop blessed a dog during the annual blessing of animals and it died the next day. It took a while for the good Bishop to live that one down!

Maybe he did last rites by accident.

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 Post subject: Re: I love dogs too, but, still......
PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:53 am 
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Bombadil wrote:
Rushintuit wrote:
Some years ago, our Bishop blessed a dog during the annual blessing of animals and it died the next day. It took a while for the good Bishop to live that one down!

Maybe he did last rites by accident.
So you know the old joke about blessings and last rites.

An old joke wrote:
Two friends, one Protestant and one Catholic, went to the horse race track together. In the first 7 races the Protestant noticed that before the race a Catholic priest had gone into the preparation area and blessed one horse. In each race the one he had blessed won easily.

Before the next race the Protestant fellow paid attention to which horse the priest blessed, then went to the betting window, and placed an enormous bet – his whole monetary value – on the selected horse. As the race began the horse bolted out of the gate fast, took 20 steps, and collapsed. Obviously the bettor lost all his money.

Afterwards, he asked his Catholic friend what had happened. The friend replied, "That's one of the problems with you Protestants; you can't tell the difference between a simple priestly blessing and last rites!"



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 Post subject: Re: I love dogs too, but, still......
PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 1:18 pm 
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I saw that story earlier and didn’t blog it because it wouldn’t be fair. It was between the offending minister and her bishop and he handled it fine ('Never do that again!'). Those things happen. Around here the Episcopalians did the right thing: legend has it a blueblood left a parish in a huff because it wouldn’t bury her horse on church grounds.

Of course the answer is dogs have no original sin on their souls - they're not responsible for what they do, unlike us - so they don't need sacraments.

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Factus cibus viatorum,
Vere panis filiorum,
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Behold the bread of angels,
Made food for wayfarers,
Truly bread for the children,
Not to be given to the dogs.

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 Post subject: Re: I love dogs too, but, still......
PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 4:57 pm 
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Is that a typo? "Bury her....horse"? :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: I love dogs too, but, still......
PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 5:11 pm 
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Nope. She wanted her dear departed horse buried in consecrated ground.

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 Post subject: Re: I love dogs too, but, still......
PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:23 pm 
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GKC wrote:
Lonevoice wrote:
I know they don't view the Eucharist the same way that we do but :shock:



Depends on which of them you ask, as to how it's viewed. But this is an aberration, anywhere.


GKC


Didn't mean to give offense; :oops:, but the Episcopalians that I have religious discussions with(on rare occasions, more's the pity) view the Eucharist as symbolic of the Body and Blood, denying that during the Act of Consecration it becomes the literal Body and Blood. This may not be the official view, but just what I've gotten from them. Sadly, many of the "Catholics" I know view it similarly :( :pray: .

God Bless :)

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 Post subject: Re: I love dogs too, but, still......
PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 7:19 am 
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We also have a different type of soul than animals. I've probably already butchered it with that statement. We ARE a different type of soul than animals, we HAVE a body. hmmmm, I don't know, maybe you get it.

On our trip to church every Sunday when I was a kid we went around a bend in the road and off to the side about 50 or 70 yards was a little fenced in area about 8X10 feet. It had a white picket fence and was right in the middle of a plowed field. The man who had owned the land somewhere around a hundred years ago was riding his horse when he stepped in a prairie dog hole and broke his leg so the man had to shoot him. He buried the horse there and built the fence and then placed a restriction on the deed that whoever buys the property has to maintain the fence he built there, so there it sits. True story. I doubt that having a funeral mass and burial in the church cemetery even crossed his mind. (oh, and he was almost certainly Catholic)

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Last edited by Bombadil on Sat Jul 24, 2010 7:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: I love dogs too, but, still......
PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 7:23 am 
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Bombadil wrote:
We also have a different type of soul than animals. I've probably already butchered it with that statement. We ARE a different type of soul than animals, we HAVE a body.

You were closer the first time. We are not simply our souls. We are a soul-body combination.

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 Post subject: Re: I love dogs too, but, still......
PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 7:28 am 
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Right, they have souls but not the same as ours. We have intellects like God and the angels. (Let's see if I remember the good scholastic theology: plants have vegetative souls, animals sensitive ones — the higher animals have emotions, which is why dogs are so charming, and we have spiritual ones.) There is no doctrine about what happens to animals' souls when they die but at least one can tell grieving pet owners we're sure they no longer suffer.

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 Post subject: Re: I love dogs too, but, still......
PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 7:38 am 
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I think there probably is a doctrine laying around somewhere that they do not have immortal souls.

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 Post subject: Re: I love dogs too, but, still......
PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 7:44 am 
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The young fogey wrote:
Right, they have souls but not the same as ours. We have intellects like God and the angels. (Let's see if I remember the good scholastic theology: plants have vegetative souls, animals sensitive ones — the higher animals have emotions, which is why dogs are so charming, and we have spiritual ones.) There is no doctrine about what happens to animals' souls when they die but at least one can tell grieving pet owners we're sure they no longer suffer.



I like what C. S. Lewis told a woman who was grieving for a deceased dog, and who said that if the pet wasn't in Heaven with her, she would not be able to be happy there. Lewis said that if that was a true statement, then most certainly she would find the dog in Heaven.


GKC

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 Post subject: Re: I love dogs too, but, still......
PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 8:46 am 
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That's one of the possibilities: that the pet ordinarily would cease to exist unlike a human soul or an angel (or God) but God could bring him back — re-create him — to make someone happy in heaven (like the 'Rainbow Bridge' story some grieving dog owners like).

Also reminds me of a Scottish folkway someone who grew up there told me: that if you make an animal a pet (as opposed to raising him for food and not getting attached) in a way he becomes a part of you; he assumes part of your humanity. So you can't eat him. (The friend told me he once caught hell from his grandfather for doing that with an animal that was supposed to be the family dinner.) Another argument for the possibility of Fido or Fluffy joining you in paradise: 'He's with me'. Why not?

That and the new creation described in Revelation — that some day the pet will come back in that way — is sometimes held out by orthodox Christians to comfort the grieving. Which is fine.

The worst that could happen to our animals is they cease to be. The atheist's idea of death; better than the possibility of hell that we have. Again they don't suffer after death.

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 Post subject: Re: I love dogs too, but, still......
PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 8:48 am 
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Our pets exist in the eternal mind of God (else they would have had no earthly existence either); thus the Blessed in Heaven can know them there by knowing God.

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 Post subject: Re: I love dogs too, but, still......
PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 8:54 am 
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Sounds like a good Christian Platonist answer. Thank you!

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 Post subject: Re: I love dogs too, but, still......
PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 9:19 am 
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:shock: No one has ever called me a Platonist before. :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: I love dogs too, but, still......
PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 2:28 pm 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
:shock: No one has ever called me a Platonist before. :shock:
Often a "Plutonist", since you are far-out and near the end of our solar system, but Platonist never.


Edward Pothier


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