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 Post subject: Camelot Found to Have Been in Chester?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 7:58 pm 
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... Table.html

I think there may be some historic fact around which the legends of Authur were built, but to say 'it is found' seems a bit premature, :).

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 Post subject: Re: Camelot Found to Have Been in Chester?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 8:07 pm 
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The problem with the argument that 'King Arthur had an origin in actual history' is that the question immediately arises 'which King Arthur?'

There are so many different versions, from so many different authors, that there really is no 'King Arthur Story' there are multiple King Arthur Stories, from multiple places, which directly contradict one another.

Some argue that around the 5th century there was some Celtic tribal leader named 'Arthur' about whom legends later developed and morphed into the Arthur we know today....but that doesn't seem to make sense to me...how could an apparently purely pagan legend develop into an explicitly Christian one if it was based on some Fifth Century tribal leader?

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 Post subject: Re: Camelot Found to Have Been in Chester?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 8:14 pm 
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Kinda' like Robin Hood.

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 Post subject: Re: Camelot Found to Have Been in Chester?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 8:23 pm 
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Desertfalcon wrote:
Kinda' like Robin Hood.


Actually, no. Robin Hood is placed into an extremely specific time and place in history, namely Nottingham and Shrewood Forest while Richard 'Lionheart' was in the Holy Land fighting the Crusades....

It is well know that there WERE indeed gangs of bandits roving those forests and that it was very dangerous to travel there.

It is also human nature to romanticize criminality and thievery, and criminals and gangsters often become folk heroes, as happened with Jesse James, Bonnie and Clyde and John Dillinger.

Even if the legend does not describe a specific historical person (and it probably doesn't) it is not at all difficult to understand how the legend of Robin Hood could have developed.

Arthur is a complete and utter mystery.

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 Post subject: Re: Camelot Found to Have Been in Chester?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 8:31 pm 
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Glastonbury has also been frequently cited as terra Arthuriana... along with other places.

There will never be any definitive proof as to where Arthur reigned, and that's as it should be.

I was reading one of Chesterton's essays today, the one in which he describes the three different categories of people: the People, the Poets, and the Professors. The People and the Poets are a reasonably good lot, but the Professors are pretty rotten. They're the sort that likes disproving or debunking things simply for the heck of it, and they do it extremely frequently, and make an extremely shoddy job of it. They are the sort who would seize on any place with a claim to be Arthur's homeland, and manufacture vast amounts of shockingly dull writing to prove it wasn't so, or it was so but only in a sense so qualified and re-historicized that all the romance of Arthur has been bludgeoned out of it, or that the whole thing was bunk. So I'm glad the Professors shan't ever get their way on Arthur. God knows they've tried...

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 Post subject: Re: Camelot Found to Have Been in Chester?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 8:37 pm 
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And Rashbold isn't going to like this but I am about to be a debunker...

The first description of the 'Round Table' dates from the year 1155....

About 600 years too late if such a place really existed

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 Post subject: Re: Camelot Found to Have Been in Chester?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 8:41 pm 
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Rashbold wrote:
Glastonbury has also been frequently cited as terra Arthuriana... along with other places.

There will never be any definitive proof as to where Arthur reigned, and that's as it should be.

I was reading one of Chesterton's essays today, the one in which he describes the three different categories of people: the People, the Poets, and the Professors. The People and the Poets are a reasonably good lot, but the Professors are pretty rotten. They're the sort that likes disproving or debunking things simply for the heck of it, and they do it extremely frequently, and make an extremely shoddy job of it. They are the sort who would seize on any place with a claim to be Arthur's homeland, and manufacture vast amounts of shockingly dull writing to prove it wasn't so, or it was so but only in a sense so qualified and re-historicized that all the romance of Arthur has been bludgeoned out of it, or that the whole thing was bunk. So I'm glad the Professors shan't ever get their way on Arthur. God knows they've tried...



"The Three Kinds of Men", ALARMS AND DISCURSIONS, Methuen, 1st, 1910, p. 147.


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 Post subject: Re: Camelot Found to Have Been in Chester?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 8:43 pm 
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Doom wrote:
Desertfalcon wrote:
Kinda' like Robin Hood.


Actually, no. Robin Hood is placed into an extremely specific time and place in history, namely Nottingham and Shrewood Forest while Richard 'Lionheart' was in the Holy Land fighting the Crusades....

It is well know that there WERE indeed gangs of bandits roving those forests and that it was very dangerous to travel there.

It is also human nature to romanticize criminality and thievery, and criminals and gangsters often become folk heroes, as happened with Jesse James, Bonnie and Clyde and John Dillinger.

Even if the legend does not describe a specific historical person (and it probably doesn't) it is not at all difficult to understand how the legend of Robin Hood could have developed.

Arthur is a complete and utter mystery.



What sayeth John Morris?

GKC

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 Post subject: Re: Camelot Found to Have Been in Chester?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 8:45 pm 
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Who is John Morris?

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 Post subject: Re: Camelot Found to Have Been in Chester?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 8:49 pm 
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Doom wrote:
Who is John Morris?


Author of THE AGE OF ARTHUR, largest book I have on the Matter of Britain.

GKC

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 Post subject: Re: Camelot Found to Have Been in Chester?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 8:52 pm 
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Doom wrote:
Desertfalcon wrote:
Kinda' like Robin Hood.


Actually, no. Robin Hood is placed into an extremely specific time and place in history, namely Nottingham and Shrewood Forest while Richard 'Lionheart' was in the Holy Land fighting the Crusades....

It is well know that there WERE indeed gangs of bandits roving those forests and that it was very dangerous to travel there.

It is also human nature to romanticize criminality and thievery, and criminals and gangsters often become folk heroes, as happened with Jesse James, Bonnie and Clyde and John Dillinger.

Even if the legend does not describe a specific historical person (and it probably doesn't) it is not at all difficult to understand how the legend of Robin Hood could have developed.

Arthur is a complete and utter mystery.

But not one specific "Robin Hood", which was my point.

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 Post subject: Re: Camelot Found to Have Been in Chester?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 8:53 pm 
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Desertfalcon wrote:
But not one specific "Robin Hood", which was my point.


Whether or not there was one specific 'Robin Hood' is disputed, there may or may not have been. But the origins of the legend are pretty clear.

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 Post subject: Re: Camelot Found to Have Been in Chester?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 10:31 pm 
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Greetings:

First appearance: uncertain
Second appearance: Atlas Comics,Black Knight Comics#1(May,1955)
Third appearance: Marvel Comics,Strange Tales 1,#108(May 1963)

by(e)carg

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 Post subject: Re: Camelot Found to Have Been in Chester?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 2:43 am 
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Pffffffffft. . ..everyone knows Camelot was and remains in Hyannis Port, Massechusetts.

Image

All jokes and politics aside, what a lovely family they made. God rest his soul and may all their family find peace with God.

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 Post subject: Re: Camelot Found to Have Been in Chester?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:22 am 
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BlueyedMule wrote:
Pffffffffft. . ..everyone knows Camelot was and remains in Hyannis Port, Massechusetts.

[*img]http://static.open.salon.com/files/kennedy1223049498.jpg[/img]

All jokes and politics aside, what a lovely family they made. God rest his soul and may all their family find peace with God.
Gee, Puppi should have posted that, since it's her stomping ground.


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 Post subject: Re: Camelot Found to Have Been in Chester?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:32 am 
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BlueyedMule wrote:
Pffffffffft. . ..everyone knows Camelot was and remains in Hyannis Port, Massechusetts.

Image

All jokes and politics aside, what a lovely family they made. God rest his soul and may all their family find peace with God.


The photographer to took that photo was on Antiques Road Show awhile back :)

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 Post subject: Re: Camelot Found to Have Been in Chester?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:55 am 
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GKC wrote:
Doom wrote:
Who is John Morris?


Author of THE AGE OF ARTHUR, largest book I have on the Matter of Britain.

GKC
I enjoyed "The Quest for Merlin" (nonfiction) by Nikolai Tolstoy and read and reread "The Coming of the King" his fantasy novel on the same subject. I have been waiting for the rest for 20+ yaers. I hope he gets around to finishing.

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 Post subject: Re: Camelot Found to Have Been in Chester?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:24 am 
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metal1633 wrote:
GKC wrote:
Doom wrote:
Who is John Morris?


Author of THE AGE OF ARTHUR, largest book I have on the Matter of Britain.

GKC
I enjoyed "The Quest for Merlin" (nonfiction) by Nikolai Tolstoy and read and reread "The Coming of the King" his fantasy novel on the same subject. I have been waiting for the rest for 20+ yaers. I hope he gets around to finishing.


I also liked COMING OF THE KING. And sequels were promised.

Arthurian stuff was once one of my wife's interests, both
fiction/nonfiction, resulting in 50+ books on the matter around here. But it is long dormant.


GKC

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 Post subject: Re: Camelot Found to Have Been in Chester?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:25 am 
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The Once and Future King?

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 Post subject: Re: Camelot Found to Have Been in Chester?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:28 am 
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Doom wrote:
The Once and Future King?


Rex quondam, Rexque futurus.


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