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 Post subject: book: why i am catholic...your thoughts?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 4:10 pm 
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So I had to kill some time in a mega-bookstore and I picked up a few books to flip through while I had iced coffee. One was a book on Cuban food (mmmmmmmmm) and the others were (surprise , surprise) about Catholicism. One of the titles sounded interesting but wound up way over my head and bothered me quite a bit... Why I am Catholic by Gary Willis. http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0618134298/ref=mp_s_a_6?qid=1278795112&sr=8-6

He seems to have a critical tone of the papacy and Catholic conservatives in general...I skimmed most of it but it seemed like he thinks the papacy is constantly in a state of evolution, that Catholic teachings on male priesthood, contraception, and (possibley) homosexuality are not morally binding, and he appears to me as in favor of modernism. Now I am NOT well versed in reading Catholic materials so I could have GROSSLY misinterpreted some of that. Anyone know of this book or author?

What bothered me most is how Church councils, papal power, elections to the Curia, and all the teachings of Trent and Vatican II appear to be little more than a bunch off Church politics and kniving voters... I am NOT saying that IS how things ARE but that is how it appeared to me as I skimmed through... in reality I do not know what it is like. I know how highly y'all speak of your Pope and bishops (though not all of them I know) but reading his accounts made everyrhing sound so much like the Church politics of my own congregation on a worldwide scale. How would ease these bothersome thoughts in someone like me? Have I just simply misunderstood?

Thanks all!


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 Post subject: Re: book: why i am catholic...your thoughts?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 4:55 pm 
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Willis is a guy who likes the tenants of the faith but having covered countless human rights movement events, etc. is liberal enough to think that many things are negotiable -- women priests, birth control, etc. He is one of those that believes the Church should change to keep up with the times. The only way to push for such change is to present the Church as ever changing and that doctrines were merely democratic votes. In this manner we should expand the range of voters so that he can vote and we will quickly see the Church go liberal. It is with Willis as it was with Martin Luther -- loved the faith but wanted to have the faith be his way.

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 Post subject: Re: book: why i am catholic...your thoughts?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 5:00 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: book: why i am catholic...your thoughts?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 5:18 pm 
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Wills wrote a not totally bad book on Chesterton.

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 Post subject: Re: book: why i am catholic...your thoughts?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 5:46 pm 
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Wills is not reliable as a "Catholic" writer. I used to read him years ago and my criticism here is confined to his reliability in presenting Catholic beliefs.

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 Post subject: Re: book: why i am catholic...your thoughts?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 5:55 pm 
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Desertfalcon wrote:
Wills is not reliable as a "Catholic" writer. I used to read him years ago and my criticism here is confined to his reliability in presenting Catholic beliefs.



I read him back when he was writing for National Review, in his conservative days.


GKC

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 Post subject: Re: book: why i am catholic...your thoughts?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 5:55 pm 
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GKC wrote:
Desertfalcon wrote:
Wills is not reliable as a "Catholic" writer. I used to read him years ago and my criticism here is confined to his reliability in presenting Catholic beliefs.



I read him back when he was writing for National Review, in his conservative days.


GKC

Yup.

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 Post subject: Re: book: why i am catholic...your thoughts?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 6:08 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: book: why i am catholic...your thoughts?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 6:14 pm 
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Desertfalcon wrote:
GKC wrote:
Desertfalcon wrote:
Wills is not reliable as a "Catholic" writer. I used to read him years ago and my criticism here is confined to his reliability in presenting Catholic beliefs.



I read him back when he was writing for National Review, in his conservative days.


GKC


Yup.



I think he lost me at NIXON AGONISTES.


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 Post subject: Re: book: why i am catholic...your thoughts?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 6:22 pm 
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GKC wrote:
I think he lost me at NIXON AGONISTES.


Reagan's America did it for me.

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 Post subject: Re: book: why i am catholic...your thoughts?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 6:37 pm 
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BB, how sharp of you to pick up on the dissenting tone of Willis in this book. You, sir, are more perceptive than many, many cultural Catholics. You've moved up to the front row of the class already!! :D Nice work! :laughhard Proud of ya, son. . .. :salut:

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 Post subject: Re: book: why i am catholic...your thoughts?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 6:38 pm 
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I don't know anything about this author or the book. However, if you want to be certain that what you are reading is authentic Catholic teaching, look inside the title page for a "Nihil Obstat" and an "Imprimatur" which are "official declarations that a book or pamphlet is free of doctrinal or moral error." (I got that definition out of the front of one of Scott Hahn's books. His books always have them.) The Imprimatur will be granted by a Bishop and the Nihil Obstat comes from a priest who reads books for errors. He is know as a "Censor Librorum". You might want to check out Catholicism for Dummies, not that I think you are a dummy, but because it is a good overview of Catholic teaching written by 2 good faithful and orthodox priests.

Peace,
Linda

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 Post subject: Re: book: why i am catholic...your thoughts?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 6:44 pm 
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baptist bumble wrote:
So I had to kill some time in a mega-bookstore and I picked up a few books to flip through while I had iced coffee. One was a book on Cuban food (mmmmmmmmm) and the others were (surprise , surprise) about Catholicism. One of the titles sounded interesting but wound up way over my head and bothered me quite a bit... Why I am Catholic by Gary Willis. http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0618134298/ref=mp_s_a_6?qid=1278795112&sr=8-6

He seems to have a critical tone of the papacy and Catholic conservatives in general...I skimmed most of it but it seemed like he thinks the papacy is constantly in a state of evolution, that Catholic teachings on male priesthood, contraception, and (possibley) homosexuality are not morally binding, and he appears to me as in favor of modernism. Now I am NOT well versed in reading Catholic materials so I could have GROSSLY misinterpreted some of that. Anyone know of this book or author?

What bothered me most is how Church councils, papal power, elections to the Curia, and all the teachings of Trent and Vatican II appear to be little more than a bunch off Church politics and kniving voters... I am NOT saying that IS how things ARE but that is how it appeared to me as I skimmed through... in reality I do not know what it is like. I know how highly y'all speak of your Pope and bishops (though not all of them I know) but reading his accounts made everyrhing sound so much like the Church politics of my own congregation on a worldwide scale. How would ease these bothersome thoughts in someone like me? Have I just simply misunderstood?

Thanks all!


Wills should be beaten with a sack full of doorknobs.

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 Post subject: Re: book: why i am catholic...your thoughts?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 6:50 pm 
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mmmm.... doorknobs

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 Post subject: Re: book: why i am catholic...your thoughts?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 7:11 pm 
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Quote:
Wills should be beaten with a sack full of doorknobs.


:salut:

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 Post subject: Re: book: why i am catholic...your thoughts?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 8:22 pm 
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Many good Catholic books don't have an imprimatur, since it's really only required for teaching materials. And, sadly, there is some garbage that does have an imprimatur.

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 Post subject: Re: book: why i am catholic...your thoughts?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 9:40 pm 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Many good Catholic books don't have an imprimatur, since it's really only required for teaching materials. And, sadly, there is some garbage that does have an imprimatur.


Having looked at books donated to the Parish Library, I can add a hearty AMEN, PREACH IT FATHER to this!

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 Post subject: Re: book: why i am catholic...your thoughts?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 10:37 pm 
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I third what Fr and Kelly said! There are definately books out there with the nihil obstat that aren't worth the paper they are printed on! One of the 'bad' (revisionist/modernist) catechism has it IIRC.


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 Post subject: Re: book: why i am catholic...your thoughts?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 11:26 pm 
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His version of history is very suspect. It is one thing to argue that Peter was never in Rome (which I already find untenable, even by secular standards) but he argues that there were no bishops at all until after the 2nd century....and that no scholar holds. The Didache, the letters to and from Clement "bishop of Rome" preclude such a fanciful interpretation. And disinterested scholars would scorn it too

He has an axe to grind and is no scholar.

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 Post subject: Re: book: why i am catholic...your thoughts?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 11:32 pm 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
And, sadly, there is some garbage that does have an imprimatur.


Unfortunately, an imprimatur is only as good as the bishop who granted it.....think of how long it took to remove the imprimatur from the infamous Dutch Catechism :roll:

And when one considers that there are actually a shocking number of bishops who are members of groups like Call To Action granting imprimaturs to absolutely horrid materials....One bishop to avoid Raymond A Lucker...not only a Call to Action member but even a leader in the Minnesota chapter

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