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 Post subject: Re: Doom!!!!!!!!!1 Apple's new phone debacle at unveiling!
PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 11:12 pm 
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Prodigal Son of Thunder
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Teacher wrote:
And I haven't any stories of the millions of users storming the gates of Cupertino clamoring for those items.

That's because people who want those items are buying Android-based phones, which are currently outselling the iPhone.

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 Post subject: Re: Doom!!!!!!!!!1 Apple's new phone debacle at unveiling!
PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 12:03 am 
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Okay, about the whole iPhone on Verizon thing...NEVER.GOING.GO.TO.HAPPEN

Exactly what part of ''Verizon rejected the iPhone in 2006" do these Apple and Verizon fanboys not understand? Verizon took one look at Apple's conditions and said not just 'no' but 'hell no'....they don't want it. Verizon is the most controlling network on this planet...going up against the most controlling manufacturer in the world...two companies both demanding 100% control? It ain't gonna work.

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 Post subject: Re: Doom!!!!!!!!!1 Apple's new phone debacle at unveiling!
PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 5:51 am 
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Pepsuber wrote:
Teacher wrote:
And I haven't any stories of the millions of users storming the gates of Cupertino clamoring for those items.

That's because people who want those items are buying Android-based phones, which are currently outselling the iPhone.


That's called competition, but it doesn't seem to have hurt Apple:

"SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- Apple Inc said Tuesday that profit rose 90% in its fiscal second quarter as it sold almost 9 million iPhones, easily topping analyst estimates in both profit and sales amid a surge in demand in international markets.

Shares of Apple (AAPL 249.33, -1.61, -0.64%) jumped more than 5% in after-hours trading following the report after closing the regular session down 1% at $244.59. The stock has climbed 16% so far this year. As usual, the company issued a highly conservative earnings forecast for the June quarter that was below Wall Street's estimates.

Sales of the company's popular iPhone drove the quarter, with unit sales up more than 130% from the same period last year."

The main reason folks want a Verizon IPhone is that AT&T's network isn't capable of the handling the usage load in some locations and IIRC there are some technical incompatibilities involved also.

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 Post subject: Re: Doom!!!!!!!!!1 Apple's new phone debacle at unveiling!
PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 7:18 am 
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Teacher wrote:
That's called competition, but it doesn't seem to have hurt Apple:

I did not say that it "hurt" Apple, although it may hurt their relative position in the marketplace. It is telling, however, that Android is outselling the iPhone when the iPhone came out first and had the initiative. It makes sense for the Blackberry to outsell the iPhone, the Blackberry has been out for much much longer.

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 Post subject: Re: Doom!!!!!!!!!1 Apple's new phone debacle at unveiling!
PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 7:28 am 
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It is interesting how they are selling so many in India. Saw that on Mad Money last night. Their economy is growing and 17 million new people sign up for cell phones every month.

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 Post subject: Re: Doom!!!!!!!!!1 Apple's new phone debacle at unveiling!
PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 10:37 am 
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Again, if sales figures proves that a product is 'good' then we have to conclude that the best operating system is Microsoft Windows and that OS X is pretty awful by comparison...

Moreover, btaking customer service calls from iPhone customers.....you'll find out pretty quickly what iPhone users want...before you start talking about how you 'know' what iPhone users want...try spending 40 hours a week every week for 8 months

And the things that I listed are things that I hear people complaining about CONSTANTLY. People like Teacher and Paulus Magnus are just Apple fanboys, people who are so wrapped up in the RDF (reality distortion field) which Apple projects that they find it morally offensive that anyone would suggest that any Apple product is anything short of perfect or flawless...

Let's be honest, there are some people who are so devoted to Apple that they would buy ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING provided an Apple logo was slapped on it....and then immediately proclaim it the greatest X ever made....

If Steve Jobs defected in a shiny, metallic box with an Apple logo on it and sold it $500 under the name of 'iCrap' he could get 100,000 pre-orders, and they would proclaim it 'the greatest POS ever made!' that wouldn't prove that it was actually a good product...it just proves that Apple cult members are extremely fanatical


And, let's be clear, the reason why the people buy the iPhone is not because they are in love with it, it is because of the constant HYPE....tell me, before the iPhone, what other cellular phone was constantly advertised on TV 24/7/365 so that it became a household name?

Before the iPhone, all the advertising was centered around service plans, with references to specific phones being quite rare....it is only with the iPhone that advertising for specific makes and models of phones became commonplace, and still to this day the only thing that advertises and hypes itself even 1/10 as much as the iPhone are the android phones....which are currently outselling the iPhone

But why are so many iPhones sold? Let me tell you why....

People want the iPhone solely because of the constant hype, and because the representatives at the AT&T stores get a larger commission for selling iPhone than they do for other phones, so they tend to aggressively push them

If you walk into an AT&T store to buy a phone, you have to be very, very assertive about saying 'no' or else you will walk out with an iPhone because the salesmen have that extra incentive to sell them

I have talked to SO MANY PEOPLE complaining about basic aspects of the iPhone that they didn't understand, 'why do I have to sync with iTunes?, Why do I have to give Apple my credit card number? Why am I required to have a data plan?'

NONE OF THIS is explained to them because of the salesman's desire to push the iPhone so they can get that higher commission

Yes, people complain about the fact that you can't remove the battery, yes they complain about the lack of open development, yes they complain that you can only buy apps from iTunes, yes they complain about the lack of a physical keyboard, yes, they complain about short battery life (this one is actually the #1 most common complaint about the iPhone), yes they complain about pretty much everything

Teacher can claim all he likes that 'no one' makes these complaints, I have spoken to SEVERAL HUNDRED people complaining about all of these things and more....I took a supervisor call from someone who was pissed that he had to have an iTunes account to use an iPhone for goodness sake!

But you won't know that these complaints exist...if you live in the RDF

Yes, aggressive marketing and sales tactics 'just plain work'

I have taken supervisor calls from someone who demanded a free iPhone, and then when I asked why he wanted an iPhone he explained that what he wanted was (in his words) 'a simple little flip phone that doesn't do anything special' why the hell did he ask for an iPhone which is the exact opposite of that? In his own words 'because I see it on TV all the time'....he asked for an iPhone only because that is the only phone he knew by name...he DIDN'T ACTUALLY WANT ONE...in fact, he didn't even know what an iPhone was, he only knew the name....

That is why a large number of people buy iPhones

I ended that call by sending him a Motorola EM330....free of charge.



What it doesn't prove is that people 'love the iPhone'.....there are many iPhone users who despise the thing and who regret buying them...I know, I have spoken to them

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 Post subject: Re: Doom!!!!!!!!!1 Apple's new phone debacle at unveiling!
PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 11:12 am 
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Pepsuber wrote:
Teacher wrote:
That's called competition, but it doesn't seem to have hurt Apple:

I did not say that it "hurt" Apple, although it may hurt their relative position in the marketplace. It is telling, however, that Android is outselling the iPhone when the iPhone came out first and had the initiative. It makes sense for the Blackberry to outsell the iPhone, the Blackberry has been out for much much longer.


Combination of saturation on the AT&T base and people delaying a purchase while waiting for iPhone 4 to come out I would suspect.

Doom wrote:
And the things that I listed are things that I hear people complaining about CONSTANTLY. People like Teacher and Paulus Magnus are just Apple fanboys, people who are so wrapped up in the RDF (reality distortion field) which Apple projects that they find it morally offensive that anyone would suggest that any Apple product is anything short of perfect or flawless...


Rather not true, I just don't happen to share your same "Everything Apple does is utter censored" mentality. It's worth noting that you keep trying to hype up complaints on a phone when the iPhone consistently ranks highest in customer satisfaction, blowing out the rest of the industry in fact. Same with complaints about iPhones being pushed by AT&T salesmen when I'm fairly certain that most iPhone purchases are through the Apple store (either online or through the brick and mortar sales).

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 Post subject: Re: Doom!!!!!!!!!1 Apple's new phone debacle at unveiling!
PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 11:30 am 
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I got an iPhone because it was given to me by my boss but I do find it very useful even though I may be the last guy on earth with a functional pre-3G iPhone. :) In fact the iPhone was BY FAR the best smart phone I had used at the point I got it. I still love the phone and find it quite useful for what I do.

My opinion of Apple is pretty simple. They do something brilliant about every 5-10 years and then they spend the gaps screwing it up with occasional flashes to remind you that one of those brilliant moments MAY be coming. They have a loyal fan base because at one time if you were a designer or musician you used an Apple or nothing at all. Mac also historically has spent a ton of effort on the look and feel. Through the XP days Windows looked like garbage compared to a Mac. It is hard to convince people who care about those things to use a computer they hate looking at.

The biggest problem I have with Mac is that development options are thin which is why Windows virtual instruments, especially in the "free" mold, outpace Mac options by a mile. 90% of the best free Mac plug-ins are because a Mac fan ported the Windows solution. My biggest problem with Windows is the historical necessity to solve a hardware problem by visiting some tech forum that tells me to edit a registry key named a 32 character string of hexadecimal and enter some nonsensical string, then reboot 3 times and do the hokey pokey. This is especially true of "class compliant" music hardware. I have never had the same problem with a Mac. You plug class compliant things into a Mac and they pretty much work. To me you pick your poison. I solve the problem by having a Mac running VMWare Fusion. Best (and worst) of both worlds ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Doom!!!!!!!!!1 Apple's new phone debacle at unveiling!
PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 12:17 pm 
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It is always funny to watch this....

The Apple people get angry when you suggest that they are a cult with an irrational devotion to a company 'no way that's true....' they insist, 'it's an exaggeration'....but then the moment you suggest that an Apple product might be something less than perfect, they immediately jump to the defense...

If you don't have an irrational, cult like devotion.....why do you care if other people criticize the company or its products? I mean...to each his own, right? Why do you insist that everyone has to believe exactly the same things about Apple as you...it's not a religious matter after all

Or is it? :scratch:

The only thing funnier is when Apple devotees insist that the latest Apple product is the greatest thing of its kind ever made and cannot possibly be made any better...and then rush out and buy the next generation the first day it is offered....

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 Post subject: Re: Doom!!!!!!!!!1 Apple's new phone debacle at unveiling!
PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 12:23 pm 
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Where have I ever suggested that Apple's products are perfect? I just keep pointing out that you are ridiculously biased against it and flat out lie :fyi:

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They say, 'We do not know how this is, but we know that God can do it.' You poor fools! God can make a cow out of a tree, but has he ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so.

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 Post subject: Re: Doom!!!!!!!!!1 Apple's new phone debacle at unveiling!
PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 12:33 pm 
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Doom wrote:
weunice wrote:
Did they unveil the $1500 Apple printer that looks really good and just works? ;)


Works for 1/3 as long as other printers before you have to replace the cartridge?


And requries 'iPaper' as a defined peripheral; and costs $30 a sheet.

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 Post subject: Re: Doom!!!!!!!!!1 Apple's new phone debacle at unveiling!
PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 12:38 pm 
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And the iPhone 4 'new' features.

Let's see, background processes and a front facing camera with video call.

My old HTC Tytn that I just gave to my son did all that 3 years ago on WinMobile 5.

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 Post subject: Re: Doom!!!!!!!!!1 Apple's new phone debacle at unveiling!
PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 1:02 pm 
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Brendan wrote:
And the iPhone 4 'new' features.

Let's see, background processes and a front facing camera with video call.

My old HTC Tytn that I just gave to my son did all that 3 years ago on WinMobile 5.


They are new to the iPhone, hence why they are new in/on iPhone 4 :fyi:

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"If only you find the Divine Teacher, you may leave all objections to the doctrine he teaches to answer themselves. And if you find him not, then answers to the difficulties brought against his teachings will go for little." Cardinal Vaughan

They say, 'We do not know how this is, but we know that God can do it.' You poor fools! God can make a cow out of a tree, but has he ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so.

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 Post subject: Re: Doom!!!!!!!!!1 Apple's new phone debacle at unveiling!
PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 1:26 pm 
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Paulus Magnus wrote:
Brendan wrote:
And the iPhone 4 'new' features.

Let's see, background processes and a front facing camera with video call.

My old HTC Tytn that I just gave to my son did all that 3 years ago on WinMobile 5.


They are new to the iPhone, hence why they are new in/on iPhone 4 :fyi:


Yea, I know, but really, no background processes before this??? It's kind of like it having only having a CRT monitor ;). Heck the ipaq I had in '98 could do background processes ;)

Welcome to the 21st century Apple.

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 Post subject: Re: Doom!!!!!!!!!1 Apple's new phone debacle at unveiling!
PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 1:41 pm 
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Brendan wrote:
Paulus Magnus wrote:
Brendan wrote:
And the iPhone 4 'new' features.

Let's see, background processes and a front facing camera with video call.

My old HTC Tytn that I just gave to my son did all that 3 years ago on WinMobile 5.


They are new to the iPhone, hence why they are new in/on iPhone 4 :fyi:


Yea, I know, but really, no background processes before this??? It's kind of like it having only having a CRT monitor ;). Heck the ipaq I had in '98 could do background processes ;)

Welcome to the 21st century Apple.


No third-party app background processes, some of the default Apple apps utilized them (like Mail and iPod). For the most part, it wasn't that big of a deal for people (prolly 99% of the use for multitasking is going to be Pandora in the background). Personally, it's been an occasional annoyance, but nothing all that major, and I'd rather have better battery life and reliability if that's the compromise that needs to be made at the time.

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They say, 'We do not know how this is, but we know that God can do it.' You poor fools! God can make a cow out of a tree, but has he ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so.

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 Post subject: Re: Doom!!!!!!!!!1 Apple's new phone debacle at unveiling!
PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 1:51 pm 
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Brendan wrote:
Yea, I know, but really, no background processes before this??? It's kind of like it having only having a CRT monitor ;). Heck the ipaq I had in '98 could do background processes ;)

Welcome to the 21st century Apple.


But I will defend Apple on one point: prior to the iPhone 4, every iPhone release, while severely lacking in several respects, had at least one feature which no other phone had and which was truly innovative...

With the 2G it was visual voicemail

With the 3G it was the ability to remote wipe the memory if it is lost or stolen

And so forth...

with the iphone 4....I don't see anything that no other phone has...

But what REALLY irritates me is watching the Apple folks backtrack, first critics complain when the iPhone doesn't support a particular feature...such as MMS, or the lack of voice dialing and Bluetooth, or the inability to transfer data from a SIM card, or the lack of 3G on the original iPhone, and they tell us 'we don't need MMS, nobody uses that anyway' or 'who cares if you can't transfer data from a SIM card? None of that stuff is worth saving anyway' or 'who cares about the lack of 3G, there isn't much 3G coverage anyway' or 'I don't need voice dialing, Bluetooth or copy and paste, who the hell cares?' and then when the lacking features are added, they praise Apple's 'innovation' in introducing them...'finally, copy and paste, it's the greatest thing ever!'

They feel compelled to defend EVERY decision Apple made with the phone, at no point will they ever simply say 'yeah, you're right, it shouldn't have taken 3 generations to get support for voice dialing...that's ridiculous' but no, they have to insist that every decision has been correct all along...

It's ridiculous, I mean, I love my Blackberry, but there are tons of things that I am willing to admit I don't like about it that I would like changed...you'll never get an Apple person to say something like that though

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 Post subject: Re: Doom!!!!!!!!!1 Apple's new phone debacle at unveiling!
PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 3:12 pm 
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It seems the only one with RDF here is Doom and his knee jerk "anything Apple is bad" mindset.
are Apple products right for everyone? I don't know should everyone have a Chevy instead of a Ford.

Thee literally millions of users perfectly happy with their Apple products and millions happy with their Windows products. Apple make good products and has an excellent support structure and I prefer them personally. If others don't that's their perogative.

Do I need a sim card? Nope, I didn't use the one in my old Treo. Do I mind using ITunes for apps and music? So far so good; I haven't run into an app I wanted or needed that I couldn't get there.

But then I don't have an IPhone, my usage can't justify the cost. (I'm one of those weird people who use their cell phone to make phone calls).

People who buy or don't buy a product based on the brand name instead of their needed uses are just being foolish. However don't put out false info based on your bias.

Pax Christi

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 Post subject: Re: Doom!!!!!!!!!1 Apple's new phone debacle at unveiling!
PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 5:19 pm 
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And FWIW I am only sporting the Apple logo because "the man" is making me. I thought we established that earlier in this thread. I have quite a few beefs with Apple. Amongst them is that they will not sell me a $1500 printer that uses special paper and ink, looks fine and tastes like chicken. Seriously, as a developer, I think the whole Apple Store approval process and the need to use Apple developer tools is lame and will eventually be the undoing of the iPhone in this highly competitive market. Why would I code specifically for the iPhone, and then wait for a week in hopes I get approved, when I can hit the Android and Blackberry with pretty much the same code base with little or no hassle? Apple can either get with the program or go through another dark time of sparse sales and unbridled optimism about the next big thing.

Tonight, at the request of my liege, I will infect a non-compliant neighbors computer with Windows 98.

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 Post subject: Re: Doom!!!!!!!!!1 Apple's new phone debacle at unveiling!
PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 7:40 pm 
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Jobs handled it well though. At least he has a sense of humor.


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 Post subject: Re: Doom!!!!!!!!!1 Apple's new phone debacle at unveiling!
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 8:48 pm 
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AdAltareDei wrote:
Jobs handled it well though. At least he has a sense of humor.


Yep, he's laughing all the way to the bank:

"AT&T has sold out of the company’s allotment of iPhone 4 preorder units, as first reported by Boy Genius Reports and confirmed by AT&T in a statement. The company’s announcement is specific to AT&T’s own inventories, and not Apple’s or the other retailers offering the device.

The company said in a statement that June 15th “was the busiest online sales day in AT&T history.” Those who did successfully place a preorder sale through AT&T will receive theirs up on June 24th, but as of now, new preorder sales will be received on June 25th “or later.”"

"In the meanwhile, you can try to preorder through Apple’s Web site — a process that is still failing as of this writing (1900, 15 June)


Pax Christi

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