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Vacate the 2017 WS?
Yes 47%  47%  [ 7 ]
No 53%  53%  [ 8 ]
Total votes : 15
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 Post subject: Re: Should Houston's 2017 WS win be vacated?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:56 pm 
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Our Lady's Gladiator
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facts are facts dcs ... something you wish to avoid it seems ... of course , you may have any opinion you wish... that and 3.50 will get you a cup of coffee somewhere ... while their achievement is certainly tarnished , it is something that will stay in the history of the game ... not only did we win the pennant, but we also won the world championship .... they did it on the field and tptb have spoken .... sorry it doesn't agree with your "just punishment"

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 Post subject: Re: Should Houston's 2017 WS win be vacated?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:33 pm 
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TPTB can be wrong.

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 Post subject: Re: Should Houston's 2017 WS win be vacated?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:40 pm 
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it's been known to happen .... maris never should have had an asterisk, but then i notice that neither bonds, mcguire, nor sosa has anything noted in the record books that they were juiced on steroids when they performed their extraordinary feats

what did the commish have to say

Quote:
"I think there's a long tradition in baseball of not trying to change what happened. I think the answer from our prospective is to be transparent about what the investigation showed, and let our fans make their own decision about what happened."

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 Post subject: Re: Should Houston's 2017 WS win be vacated?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:11 am 
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I'm a fan and I've made my decision.

MLB is pathetic.

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 Post subject: Re: Should Houston's 2017 WS win be vacated?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:19 am 
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Those championships will have asterisks in a similar fashion as the steroid era.

That is a fact.

This could have been avoided and at the end of the day, I very much doubt they weren't aware they were doing something wrong.

And there is fact that it affected their careers in such a way that makes the players stats will be better than someone else in the market. When you know something is coming.

I have spoken.

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 Post subject: Re: Should Houston's 2017 WS win be vacated?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:31 am 
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Of course they knew they were cheating

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 Post subject: Re: Should Houston's 2017 WS win be vacated?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 10:13 am 
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Peregrinator wrote:
Of course they knew they were cheating


I was simply making a distinction to the day to day edge they normally try to get in games.

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 Post subject: Re: Should Houston's 2017 WS win be vacated?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:50 pm 
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Peregrinator wrote:
I'm a fan and I've made my decision.

MLB is pathetic.


so to what level does this affect your degree of "fandom".... just curious.... the nfl supposedly took a huge hit over their handling of the kaepernick matter

i'm also curious...would it also be your position and anyone else who voted yes in the poll) that all records set by anyone known to take steroids or hgh or whatever else was illegal for the players to be taking be stricken from the annals of baseball history ?

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 Post subject: Re: Should Houston's 2017 WS win be vacated?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:21 pm 
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faithfulservant wrote:
so to what level does this affect your degree of "fandom".... just curious.... the nfl supposedly took a huge hit over their handling of the kaepernick matter

i'm also curious...would it also be your position and anyone else who voted yes in the poll) that all records set by anyone known to take steroids or hgh or whatever else was illegal for the players to be taking be stricken from the annals of baseball history ?

I voted no simply because I felt another punishment would be more suitable. Like what college football did to USC. It took it's recruiting power away. Take picks away. Have them pay a heavy penalty. Things like that. That way, they can go back to being the miserable team that they are. :laughhard

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 Post subject: Re: Should Houston's 2017 WS win be vacated?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:28 pm 
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spoken like a true ranger's fan... i suspect you are just jealous of our success and our dominance over you the past 3 years ...but anyway... so you would want MORE picks than what was decided we should lose... 2 number 1s and 2 number 2s over the next 2 years is pretty steep... i was happy to see they did not remove any international picks from us ...since that is where we're getting our talent lately 8-)

and what is your position on those linked to steroid use by fact... what about their records...gone or not?

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 Post subject: Re: Should Houston's 2017 WS win be vacated?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:42 pm 
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faithfulservant wrote:
spoken like a true ranger's fan... i suspect you are just jealous of our success and our dominance over you the past 3 years ...but anyway... so you would want MORE picks than what was decided we should lose... 2 number 1s and 2 number 2s over the next 2 years is pretty steep... i was happy to see they did not remove any international picks from us ...since that is where we're getting our talent lately 8-)

and what is your position on those linked to steroid use by fact... what about their records...gone or not?


Than take away their international pull in whatever way is possible.

Not a rangers fan first off. I'm an Angels fan.

The steroid thing is tougher because of the mere volume of people that were involved and also getting a clear picture of who was and who wasn't.

Then you have the difference of substance. One is the dissemination of information to help an entire team. While the other helped certain individuals in most teams. Which likely means others had an advantage as well.

You can only really penalize those proven to do so and not much else we can do.

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 Post subject: Re: Should Houston's 2017 WS win be vacated?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:14 am 
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sorry...made an assumption based on location ... 2nd part of the sentence still stands however re: domination :P

so for those proven or those who admitted steroid use... their records stay or are vacated?

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 Post subject: Re: Should Houston's 2017 WS win be vacated?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:23 am 
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faithfulservant wrote:
sorry...made an assumption based on location ... 2nd part of the sentence still stands however re: domination :P

so for those proven or those who admitted steroid use... their records stay or are vacated?


Vacated.

If they can narrow it down to the amount of time it was used, I would limit it to that only.

Same with Astros.

Say they won the first one without any of this stuff, they should be allowed to keep that one.

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 Post subject: Re: Should Houston's 2017 WS win be vacated?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 10:10 am 
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faithfulservant wrote:
so for those proven or those who admitted steroid use... their records stay or are vacated?

Vacated

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 Post subject: Re: Should Houston's 2017 WS win be vacated?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 3:26 pm 
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An Astros fan decided to document the scale of the cheating:
http://signstealingscandal.com/

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 Post subject: Re: Should Houston's 2017 WS win be vacated?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 10:16 am 
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Peregrinator wrote:
An Astros fan decided to document the scale of the cheating:
http://signstealingscandal.com/


That's impressive.

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 Post subject: Re: Should Houston's 2017 WS win be vacated?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:38 pm 
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A little late but he is sorry.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28681493/cubs-theo-epstein-acknowledges-differences-joe-maddon

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 Post subject: Re: Should Houston's 2017 WS win be vacated?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:43 pm 
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wrong thread :fyi: :wave

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 Post subject: Re: Should Houston's 2017 WS win be vacated?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:49 pm 
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It's relevant to the cheating.

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 Post subject: Re: Should Houston's 2017 WS win be vacated?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:48 pm 
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This is relevant though:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-astros ... 1581508800

Strip the title, anything less isn't serious.

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