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 Post subject: Re: Response to an Orthodox Critic on Hell and the Fathers
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:23 am 
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Prodigal Son of Thunder
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Yes, the reprobate do suffer from the worm of conscience but they do not repent.

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 Post subject: Re: Response to an Orthodox Critic on Hell and the Fathers
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:32 am 
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So the Jay Dryer who's now an Orthodox apologist routinely trying to refute Catholic doctrine was a board member here eh?

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 Post subject: Re: Response to an Orthodox Critic on Hell and the Fathers
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:19 am 
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We've had all sorts of people come through here. Even gherkinists!

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 Post subject: Re: Response to an Orthodox Critic on Hell and the Fathers
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:35 pm 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
We've had all sorts of people come through here. Even gherkinists!


When are we going to update board policy to ban such horrendous creatures as the gherkinists

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In Te speravi, Domine: dixi: Tu es Deus meus, in manibus Tuis tempora mea.
Have mercy on me, O Lord, for I am weak: heal me, O Lord, for my bones are troubled.
All that the Father giveth to me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me, I will not cast out.
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 Post subject: Re: Response to an Orthodox Critic on Hell and the Fathers
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:26 am 
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ForeverFaithful wrote:
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
We've had all sorts of people come through here. Even gherkinists!


When are we going to update board policy to ban such horrendous creatures as the gherkinists


Also -

Has gherkin been banned?

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 Post subject: Re: Response to an Orthodox Critic on Hell and the Fathers
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:13 am 
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He comes and goes as he wills.

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 Post subject: Re: Response to an Orthodox Critic on Hell and the Fathers
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:46 am 
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Like a cat?

eww

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 Post subject: Re: Response to an Orthodox Critic on Hell and the Fathers
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:50 am 
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He would resent the comparison. Well played.

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 Post subject: Re: Response to an Orthodox Critic on Hell and the Fathers
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:17 pm 
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lbt wrote:
Well, I do have respect for Orthodox separated brothers. I do not consider them heretical.

But there are several Biblical quotations that indicate Hell is eternal. Check Mark 9:38-48 and Luke 3:7-18 where fire is mentioned as unquenchable.

Thanks


How do you conflate the words "unquechable" and "eternal" as having the same meaning? The only fire that is unquenchable is the fire of God's passionate love. I read the verses you posted. Neither one can be attributed to the idea of an eternal hell. Both of them, as warnings to the unbelieving Jews who were listening to Him, can just as easily be seen as warnings in the similar vein as Matthew 23-25, having to do with the soon to come Destruction of Jerusalem.

Proper exegesis of Scripture is made more difficult when we approach with presupositional lenses.


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 Post subject: Re: Response to an Orthodox Critic on Hell and the Fathers
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 4:00 pm 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
He comes and goes as he wills.


Perhaps we will see him again?

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 Post subject: Re: Response to an Orthodox Critic on Hell and the Fathers
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 5:46 pm 
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He is invincible!!!!!!!!1, after all.

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 Post subject: Re: Response to an Orthodox Critic on Hell and the Fathers
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:07 pm 
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Peregrinator wrote:
Yes, the reprobate do suffer from the worm of conscience but they do not repent.
Exactly. You can feel sorry for your past sins, and make amends. But you don't repent of them for all time. It may seem to be some category confusion here.

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 Post subject: Re: Response to an Orthodox Critic on Hell and the Fathers
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:31 pm 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
He is invincible!!!!!!!!1, after all.


I was having a conversation with him, and he left.

Maye it's my fault.

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 Post subject: Re: Response to an Orthodox Critic on Hell and the Fathers
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:39 pm 
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Nah. If it were your fault, you would have vinced him, and he is invincible!!!!!1

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 Post subject: Re: Response to an Orthodox Critic on Hell and the Fathers
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:06 pm 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Nah. If it were your fault, you would have vinced him, and he is invincible!!!!!1



I hadn't even gotten to the pre-vincing prolegomena. And he just...vanished.

Which, I guess, is sort of invincible.

I left him a note in the PM place. Maybe he'll see it. :(

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 Post subject: Re: Response to an Orthodox Critic on Hell and the Fathers
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:38 am 
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Light of the East wrote:
lbt wrote:
Well, I do have respect for Orthodox separated brothers. I do not consider them heretical.

But there are several Biblical quotations that indicate Hell is eternal. Check Mark 9:38-48 and Luke 3:7-18 where fire is mentioned as unquenchable.

Thanks


How do you conflate the words "unquechable" and "eternal" as having the same meaning? The only fire that is unquenchable is the fire of God's passionate love. I read the verses you posted. Neither one can be attributed to the idea of an eternal hell. Both of them, as warnings to the unbelieving Jews who were listening to Him, can just as easily be seen as warnings in the similar vein as Matthew 23-25, having to do with the soon to come Destruction of Jerusalem.

Proper exegesis of Scripture is made more difficult when we approach with presupositional lenses.

There seem to be many Christians who take words and phrases in the Bible literally when it suits them and don't take other words and phrases in the Bible literally when it suits them not to.


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 Post subject: Re: Response to an Orthodox Critic on Hell and the Fathers
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:46 am 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
There is no repentance in the afterlife because God doesn't grant the necessary grace.

How do you know this, Obi?


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 Post subject: Re: Response to an Orthodox Critic on Hell and the Fathers
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:54 am 
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Peregrinator wrote:
Yes, the reprobate do suffer from the worm of conscience but they do not repent.

Same question to you, Peregrinator, how do you know the reprobate do not or cannot repent?


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 Post subject: Re: Response to an Orthodox Critic on Hell and the Fathers
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:55 am 
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Denise Dee wrote:
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
There is no repentance in the afterlife because God doesn't grant the necessary grace.

How do you know this, Obi?

It's the constant and universal teaching of the Church.

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 Post subject: Re: Response to an Orthodox Critic on Hell and the Fathers
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:40 pm 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Denise Dee wrote:
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
There is no repentance in the afterlife because God doesn't grant the necessary grace.

How do you know this, Obi?

It's the constant and universal teaching of the Church.

This is not a rhetorical or argumentative question, I genuinely want to know the answer: How does the Church know this and where does this knowledge come from?

With how much certainty does the Church 'know' this and on what exactly is this level of certainty based? Are faithful Catholics required to assent to this teaching?


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