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 Post subject: Is Christianity a composite religion? -arguments for/against
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 11:33 am 
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Is it possible that every biblical tale/account was derived from Greek, Egytpian, and Mithraic (Zoroastrian) religians and cults.....???

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 11:47 am 
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The flood story is also present in the Epic of Gilgamesh, which predates the Old Testament.

Arguments for Christianity drawing from the mystery cults are weak. Most modern scholars believe the exact opposite occurred (i.e. Mithraism drawing elements from early Christianity). If you look specifically at Mithraism, you see it did exist prior to Christianity, but in radically different form. The religion, as practiced in the near east, lacked the Christian elements that later found themselves in practice in the Hellenized/Romanized versions.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 11:48 am 
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the Gilgamesh story of the flood is very similar. But, I think they are the same story. Gilgamesh being the pagan one and Noah bieng the Christian one. I think a lot of it has to do with the word of mouth story telling (like telephone) so things tend to change. I know ther is more than one stroy from Gilgamesh but don't know what the book would be called and where to get it.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 11:48 am 
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Every tale/account? Possible?

I'd be surprised at the first. For the second, just about anything is possible.

I would imagine that you'd see evidence of some of the stories/accounts in other places. I mean, something like the flood would be hard to miss.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 11:54 am 
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Weak??? Really?? .......where do you get that Mithraic practices derived from christian elements??? We have to remember that Mithraism is just an offshoot of Zoroastrianism (app. 2000 BCE).....also I'm not speaking of just Zoro/Mithra...but also Egyptian and Greek.

Max Majestic wrote:
The flood story is also present in the Epic of Gilgamesh, which predates the Old Testament.

Arguments for Christianity drawing from the mystery cults are weak. Most modern scholars believe the exact opposite occurred (i.e. Mithraism drawing elements from early Christianity). If you look specifically at Mithraism, you see it did exist prior to Christianity, but in radically different form. The religion, as practiced in the near east, lacked the Christian elements that later found themselves in practice in the Hellenized/Romanized versions.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 11:59 am 
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Here

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:02 pm 
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swaglantern wrote:
Weak??? Really?? .......where do you get that Mithraic practices derived from christian elements??? We have to remember that Mithraism is just an offshoot of Zoroastrianism (app. 2000 BCE).....also I'm not speaking of just Zoro/Mithra...but also Egyptian and Greek.



Yes, really. Try the following articles for starters:
http://www.tektonics.org/copycat/copycathub.html
http://www.equip.org/free/DB109.htm
http://www.frontline-apologetics.com/my ... ianity.htm

Zoe

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:23 pm 
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Yea...I've read those...good arguments...but one thing I've noticed is that they don't address the egyptian or greek problems....also...if mithraism stole from christianity....how does that explain one of the most powerful people of the time (Constantine) and his imposing pagan idea onto christianity...Why would that be necessary or logical if the the Mith's were getting their cues from CHristians?....he also proportedly worshipped the sun God along with christ until he died...there are no christian symbols on the arch of constantine - but Mithraic symbols etc...

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This God, this one word:

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Ayn Rand, Anthem


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:29 pm 
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Some scholars think that Constantine may have looked syncretistically at Sol Invictus and Christ. As to his "imposing" pagan ideas onto Christianity, there is ZERO evidence of that. It simply did not happen!

Additionally, if you're talking about Constantine, you're talking about the 4th century A.D. Christianity was already well established by that point. Where are you getting this information?

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:34 pm 
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swaglantern wrote:
Yea...I've read those...good arguments...but one thing I've noticed is that they don't address the egyptian or greek problems...


Ok. Try:
http://www.tektonics.org/copycat/serapis.html
http://www.tektonics.org/copycat/dionysus.html
http://www.tektonics.org/copycat/osy.html

and www.envoymagazine.com/PlanetEnvoy/Revie ... 2-Full.htm has a section about the whole Constantine/paganism thing.

Happy reading,

Zoe

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:55 pm 
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different places...some biased some not.....
for some reason my firewall blocks the tektonics tests....hmph!

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And now I see the face of God, and I raise this God over the earth, this God whom men have sought since men came into being, this God who will grant them joy and peace and pride.
This God, this one word:

"I."

Ayn Rand, Anthem


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 1:00 pm 
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swaglantern wrote:
different places...some biased some not.....
for some reason my firewall blocks the tektonics tests....hmph!



That's a shame. Holding is a good writer. You want me to email the essays to you?

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 1:25 pm 
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I can look at them when I get off work.


Max Majestic wrote:
swaglantern wrote:
different places...some biased some not.....
for some reason my firewall blocks the tektonics tests....hmph!



That's a shame. Holding is a good writer. You want me to email the essays to you?

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And now I see the face of God, and I raise this God over the earth, this God whom men have sought since men came into being, this God who will grant them joy and peace and pride.
This God, this one word:

"I."

Ayn Rand, Anthem


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 1:28 pm 
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swaglantern wrote:
I can look at them when I get off work.


Cool. That firewall is seriously curtailing your work internet time. :D

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 2:15 pm 
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You're telling me.....I may have to find a new job... har ahr haha

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And now I see the face of God, and I raise this God over the earth, this God whom men have sought since men came into being, this God who will grant them joy and peace and pride.
This God, this one word:

"I."

Ayn Rand, Anthem


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 Post subject: Re: Is Christianity a composite religion? -arguments for/against
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 2:20 pm 
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swaglantern wrote:
Is it possible that every biblical tale/account was derived from Greek, Egytpian, and Mithraic (Zoroastrian) religians and cults.....???


Did you ever stop to consider the possibility that it is the other way around?

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 2:23 pm 
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^^^^^^^^^^^ of maybe they are the same stories but different versions?


Like when you watch a show on Fresh Prince and Will, Carlton, then Uncle Phil give their version of what happened at the pool party?

Same story, same people, but its told differenty

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 3:21 pm 
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Well, I believe some of the element probably seeped in from other places as christianity grew, but undoubtadly, christianity started as a uniques religion.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 3:59 pm 
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Well as much as I consider myself an "objectivist"....I often bow to the principle of "likeliness" also at times...... There are so, so, so, many things that lead me away from religion that sometimes I don't know where to start..BUT one of the larger pins is a study of history. Ultimately if you are a christian or "most" any other sect....your written or oral guideline is all you have...the story is going to be confined through some sort of exclusivity. But if you look back through the ages you see myths and tales that are almost too coincidental to be brushed away with mere word play and imaginative explaining.....it's just too likely that something else happened historically within human parameters vs. a devine, unique singular event that is unequaled (therefore true). There are many tales of resurrections predating xtianity.....crucifixions....there are angels in creek statues and art......etc....etc..etc...Egytpians have a creation tale that features a figure called "Atum" that deals with serpents etc.....strangely familiar. So MANY images and pieces of art that depict woman holding a child - ala the Mary and jesus...even hercules was supposedly born of a virgin mother! Concepts of rebirth, baptisim have all been seen elsewhere.

DO yourself a favor and study the ancient religions....and if you don't come away with questions.......

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And now I see the face of God, and I raise this God over the earth, this God whom men have sought since men came into being, this God who will grant them joy and peace and pride.
This God, this one word:

"I."

Ayn Rand, Anthem


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 4:01 pm 
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There ARE many similarities. I'd love to go into this, but I'm walking out the door right now. More tomorrow.

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