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 Post subject: Peter's travels
PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 12:30 pm 
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Can someone point me to a few really great sources for proof/evidence that Peter was not only IN Rome, but FOUNDED the Church there as well?
Thanks in advance :)

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 1:06 pm 
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From Book III, Chapter 3, of St. Irenaeus's Against Heresies (c. 197):

Quote:
2. Since, however, it would be very tedious, in such a volume as this, to reckon up the successions of all the Churches, we do put to confusion all those who, in whatever manner, whether by an evil self-pleasing, by vainglory, or by blindness and perverse opinion, assemble in unauthorized meetings; [we do this, I say, ] by indicating that tradition derived from the apostles, of the very great, the very ancient, and universally known Church founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul; as also [by pointing out] the faith preached to men, which comes down to our time by means of the successions of the bishops. For it is a matter of necessity that every Church should agree with this Church, on account of its pre- eminent authority, that is, the faithful everywhere, inasmuch as the apostolical tradition has been preserved continuously by those [faithful men] who exist everywhere.

Roberts, Alexander and Donaldson, James, Ante-Nicene Fathers: Volume I, (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.) 1997.
(emphasis added).


Last edited by dinosaur on Thu Aug 25, 2005 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 1:32 pm 
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From Lactantius, "Of the Manner in Which the Persecutors Died," Chapter II:

Quote:
His apostles were at that time eleven in number, to whom were added Matthias, in the room of the traitor Judas, and afterwards Paul. Then were they dispersed throughout all the earth to preach the Gospel, as the Lord their Master had commanded them; and during twenty-five years, and until the beginning of the reign of the Emperor Nero, they occupied themselves in laying the foundations of the Church in every province and city.And while Nero reigned, the Apostle Peter came to Rome, and, through the power of God committed unto him, wrought certain miracles, and, by turning many to the true religion, built up a faithful and stedfast temple unto the Lord.
Roberts, Alexander and Donaldson, James, Ante-Nicene Fathers: Volume VII, (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.) 1997.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 1:49 pm 
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In his Ecclesiastical History (c. 325) Eusebius quotes Caius, a certain presbyter of Rome during the time of Pope Zephyrinus (reigned 198-217) in the following passage (Book II, Chapter XXV):

Quote:
In this way he [Nero] was the first to be heralded as above all a fighter against God, and raised up to slaughterer against the Apostles. It is related that in his time Paul was beheaded in Rome itself, and that Peter likewise was crucified, and the title of "Peter and Paul," which is still given to the cemeteries there, confirms the story, no less than does a writer of the Church named Caius, who lived when Zephyrinus was Bishop of Rome. Caius in a written discussion with Proclus, leader of the Montanists, speaks as follows of the places where the sacred relics of the Apostles in question are deposited: "But I can point out the trophies of the Apostles, for if you will go to the Vatican or to the Ostian Way you will find the trophies of those who founded this Church."


From the Loeb Classiscal Library edition, translated by Kirsopp Lake.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 9:02 pm 
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Dinosaur..thanks :)...keep it coming if there's anymore you can give me. Much appreciated :)

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 9:52 pm 
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Also in his first letter chapter 5 Peter mentions he is in Babylon, which was a code name for Rome.

Quote:
11 To him be glory and empire for ever and ever. Amen. 12 By Sylvanus, a faithful brother unto you, as I think, I have written briefly: beseeching and testifying that this is the true grace of God, wherein you stand. 13 The church that is in Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you: and so doth my son Mark. 14 Salute one another with a holy kiss. Grace be to all you, who are in Christ Jesus. Amen.

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Uniformity with the Will of God by St. Alphonsus Liguori


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 8:52 am 
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"The quote from Irenaeus seems to support that both Peter and Paul founded the Church at Rome, but this would not be the same as Peter actually being the Bishop of Rome. Can you get something on the pre-eminence of the Roman church above any other that Paul or Peter started?

Thanks!"


...from my inquirer :)

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 9:20 am 
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http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.v.i.html

Any commentary/contradiction/problems with this little morsel of info from the more learned among us?

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 10:08 am 
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EarlyChurchFathers.com

We have a section on the Authority of Rome and a section on Peter in Rome. Some of the reading may or may not help you.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 12:33 pm 
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Quote:
EarlyChurchFathers.com

We have a section on the Authority of Rome and a section on Peter in Rome. Some of the reading may or may not help you.

That's WONDERFUL! Thank you very much :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:25 am 
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References from the Catholic Encylopaedia at New Advent, and from other areas, such as Handbook of Patrology, earlychristianwritings, etc.

Bishop Dionysius of Corinth, in his letter to the Roman Church in the time of Pope Soter (165-74), says: "You have therefore by your urgent exhortation bound close together the sowing of Peter and Paul at Rome and Corinth. For both planted the seed of the Gospel also in Corinth, and together instructed us, just as they likewise taught in the same place in Italy and at the same time suffered martyrdom" (in Eusebius, "Hist. Eccl.", II, xxviii).

Both a literal interpretation, that these two Apostles were at Corinth and at Rome, and an inference may be drawn from this. The inference is that, as Paul's church is famously that of Corinth, and it is in general considered in antiquity second only to Rome (cf Pope Clement I to Corinth, in the mode of teacher and senior), thus giving it Apostolic mark, that Peter's post is at Rome. Notice how the references are ordered - Pete & Rome, Paul & Corinth.

There is the Babylon reference in 1 Peter (which Eusebius identifies this reference as Rome, and other Christian source use as a codeword for Rome), there is a reference in Pope Clement I to Corinth, Bishop Papias of Hierapolis and Clement of Alexandria refer to Mark (disciple of Peter) writing his Gospel at the request of the Roman Church, Bishop Ignatius of Antioch implies Paul and Peter are the recognized founders of the Church of Rome (cf my point about Rome and Corinth).

[Bishop Irenaeus of Lyons] described the Roman Church as the most prominent and chief preserver of the Apostolic tradition, as "the greatest and most ancient church, known by all, founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious Apostles, Peter and Paul" (Adv. haer., III, iii; cf. III, i).

This is written in the mid second century.

Tertullian gives several references to Peter's see and death in Rome.

"If thou art near Italy, thou hast Rome where authority is ever within reach. How fortunate is this Church for which the Apostles have poured out their whole teaching with their blood, where Peter has emulated the Passion of the Lord, where Paul was crowned with the death of John [the Baptist]." (De Praescriptione XXXV)

"The budding faith Nero first made bloody in Rome. There Peter was girded by another, since he was bound to the cross." (Scorpiace XV)

"[There is] no difference between that with which John baptized in the Jordan and that with which Peter baptized in the Tiber." (On Baptism, Chapter 5)

And against Marcion he appeals to the testimony of the Roman Christians, "to whom Peter and Paul have bequeathed the Gospel sealed with their blood" (Adv. Marc. , IV v)

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We are the Roman Church, "the greatest and most ancient church, known by all, founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious Apostles, Peter and Paul", "to whom Peter and Paul have bequeathed the Gospel sealed with their blood..."

We are the tenders of Peter's grave, we are "the budding faith Nero first made bloody in Rome. There Peter was girded by another, since he was bound to the cross."

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