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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 8:00 pm 
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Sons of Thunder
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That is not the goal of Christianity. The goal is attaining the salvation of souls in the hereafter, and each person's goal is first and foremost the salvation of his own soul. From this primary goal descend "our vocations." In other words, an individual's vocation should be determined by the ultimate goal of his own salvation. It's not so that the vocations of man are able to "transform the earth" in any essential way. One must not expect to live on earth (or to expect a future earth) without the experience of suffering. One must dispose oneself to suffering so that it tends toward one's salvation.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 8:14 pm 
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Vocations what is a vacation and what is the primary vocation, calling and purpose of man?

The purpose that all men are called to is "to know and to love and to serve God"

This is the vocation to witch everyone of us is called. The primary purpose is not to be saved, rather to serve God. Suffering is no nessecary for salvation, but as long as suffering exists, the holy must share and take thier burden in it because of thier love of fellow man. While the saint is secure in his suffering and knows it to be nothing, other men are not so fortunate. Suffering is usefull in both salvation, prayer and vocation in that it tends to make us bleed, remind us of who we really are and where we in in relation to what is ideal.Suffering helps one to wake up to reality and God, but it is not that God makes humans suffer so that they may be saved. Men suffer becasue they are not saved and are divided from God

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 8:21 pm 
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Yes, the primary purpose is to serve and to glorify God, and the greatest end that an individual man can achieve in order to complete this primary purpose is his own salvation.

And yes, of course it's true that humans suffer because they're divided from God. One of the visible proofs of this division is that God withholds the grace of immortality from humans.

From your previous talk, I was led to believe that you held out some expectation that here on earth, men could re-make to world into a domain of immortality and bliss. This is not so.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 8:38 pm 
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Middle Management
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From your previous talk, I was led to believe that you held out some expectation that here on earth, men could re-make to world into a domain of immortality and bliss. This is not so.


Thats what it looked like to me as well. Thanks for clearing it up for us.

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Uniformity with the Will of God by St. Alphonsus Liguori


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 8:41 pm 
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Hmm, of course not, Man cannot make or re-make anything into a domain of immortality and bliss.

I could expand the purpose to read "to know and to lve and to serve God and to be happy with him forever in heave" I know this is what the boston chatacism (spelling) said.

If we fulfill the main vocation of knowing and loving and serving God, we beome close to God, some are even united (the saints) So close that the death doesn't bring up the question of salvation. The trust God to take care of them when they die.

Just like in buddhism where nirvana cannot be attained with nirvanna in mind, (immediate) salvation cannot be attained with salvation in mind.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 8:44 pm 
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WorBlux wrote:
Just like in buddhism where nirvana cannot be attained with nirvanna in mind, (immediate) salvation cannot be attained with salvation in mind.

This is simply not true. As I said in the other thread, the supernatural end of man--his own salvation--leads man to the service that you're describing. So in the Christian scheme of things, man glorifies God by attaining man's supernatural end. When he has these goals firmly in mind, the vocations of man follow appropriately.

Immediate salvation follows judgment and purgation. There is no other kind of "immediate" salvation.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 11:26 pm 
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The goal is certainly eternal life. That is what Jesus offers. There is nothing else.

Buddhism wants to put out the flame of all desire, while Christianity wants to fuel the flame of desire for God.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 10:07 am 
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coolmk20x wrote:
The goal is certainly eternal life. That is what Jesus offers. There is nothing else.

Buddhism wants to put out the flame of all desire, while Christianity wants to fuel the flame of desire for God.


There is a diffenece betwen desire and passion. Desire is a want, a want to consume something and call it you're own. Passion isn't a want but a deep compellation that comes from within.

Nirvana is not gained by quetistic annihilation and immersion but by the active and creative awareness of love.

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