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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 4:58 pm 
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sherry, the four (as of now) Marian dogmas that you must accept as a Catholic are

1) Mother of God...
2) Perpetual Virgin
3) Immaculate Conception
4) Assumption into heaven...Body and Soul

seems like you can't get your mind wrapped around any of those... well, maybe Mother of God, though you really didn't say

btw...what makes you say Mary was a virgin birth... where did you hear that? seems like there is much left on the road you are travelling before you arrive at the destination God wishes for you...and for all His Children

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 5:12 pm 
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The Catholic Church does not teach, and has never taught, "the virgin birth of Mary herself". Mary had two natural human parents. Where did you get the idea that Catholics believed that Mary had no human father?


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 6:17 pm 
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To go through the Stations would be a most humbling way of worship, but why wouldn't just the recorded, documented events have been enough. Why did they have to embellish the events, common sensical as they may be. If you're building a faith for generations to follow, keep it as accurate as possible within the guidelines that God laid out for us in his Word.
I dont think you quite get where the Stations came from. It began with pilgrims actually going to Jerusalem and walking from the Garden where He was arrested and following the process everystep of the way. The common Stations you find in Churches and books and such all correspond to Real Places where the Pilgrims would stop and Pray while walking to Golgatha.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 6:30 pm 
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the story of St. Anne and St. Joachim, also the virgin birth of Mary herself, assumption, also the perfection of Mary - Jesus was the only perfect God/Man - not the Blessed Mary. Even the Ever Virgin, the Bible speaks of brothers, siblings to Jesus more than once


One at a time.

A: Virgin Bith of Mary. The Church does not teach that Mary had a Virgin Birth. She had two Natural Parents. They Procreated in the Normal Way and had a baby in the Normal way.

B: The Assumption of Mary. Her Assumption into Heaven is a Dogma of the Faith revealed to the Church by God. I am not sure what exactly about it you object too. What He did for her, He promised to do for all Christians, to raise us up to be with Him. Are you just upset He did it to His own mother first?

C: The Perfection of Mary/Jesus only Perfect God/Man. The Church does not teach that Mary is a Perfect God/Man, or God/Woman in this case. Mary is considered to be perfect in a purely Human sense, and even then, it is a Gift to her from God, not something she in anyway earned. HE made her Perfect by Grace through her Faith and obedience. Again, He did for her what He Promises to us. He COMMANDS us to "Be Perfect" and gives us the Grace to be just that.

D: Ever Virgin. None of those in the bible who are refered to as the Lords Brethren are ever called Marys Children. Now it is you who are assuming something not in Scripture. Only Jesus is ever called her child. As a Matter of Fact, James "The Brother of the Lord" was the son of Clopas and Marys sister. That is in the bible.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 6:45 pm 
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My point simply stated is once a sin is forgiven, that's it! Jesus paid the price. That is the Good News! He did it so we don't have to. To say that we have to continue on with ANY form of punishment as I see it is to "preach any other gospel than we have told you." (paraphrase) That in my mind is very serious stuff.
And who are you to make this Doctrinal statement? What a NT example? Paul binds the Corinthian man to a penance (because he commited incest) and then later releases him. This is an Indulgence.

Question for you. When a Murderer gets "Saved" should he be released from jail? Or should he still pay for his crime?

When you commit a sin and repent God forgives that sin. But you STILL must make amends for your sin in one way or another. Some are easy, steal a pack of gum, repent confess and God forgives you, but you must PAY BACK the store for the gum.

Penance is Paying Back the Store. And Indulgence is when the Church says you dont have too. That ALL is, infact, forgiven.

Jesus didnt die to give you a licence to Not Pay Back the Store. His Blood is not a Get Out of Jail Free Card, it is a Get into Heaven Card.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 6:54 pm 
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Sherry,

When we sin, everytime we sin, we deprive God of the glory that is rightfully His. He made us for Himself and we are to love Him with our whole Heart, Soul, and strength.

So when we deprive someone of something that is theirs, we must make amends and return it (as metal discussed above). The penances that we do are nothing in and of themselves, but when joined with Christ's sacrifice they are pleasing to God. No they can never make up for the evils that we have done, but God in His mercy accepts them. We can never do as much for God as He deserves, but we should do as much for Him as we can.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 7:52 pm 
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Thanks to all of you for being patient with me. I know it's a lot and I'm going like the scattered wind on various topics -- my brain I suppose is on overload. Though a lot of this is things I think I can never accept, there are things that are ringing true and I persevere. And I'm far too grounded in my own faith base to just accept some of this without seriously questioning.

With that said:
Marian issues:
Where did I get Mary was born of a virgin herself - to be honest I don't remember where I heard it. I have read about half of Hahn's "Hail Holy Queen." It might have been on EWTN that I watch every night during insomnia hours and then force myself to stay awake at a 3am show if I"m interested. It might have been off this board. But I KNOW it is being claimed somewhere "out there." The thought was that if Jesus was without sin, He could not have been born in a woman of sin - and even acknowledged that her mother and grandmother, etc, would have had to have been born also of virgin birth, etc -- but the reasoning continued that no, only she, and that she was sinless. I certainly hope you guys are correct and this is not the teachings of the Church, and that I brought it up to hear that it's not the case. If so, somebody certainly is teaching in error. If I discover where I saw/heard it, I'll get back to you on it.

Not the same source, but another place I heard that there are those who are wanting to actually have Mary declared as co-redeemtrix and if the Church ever did so, it would then become canon law. Sorry - that's scary!

I most definitely DO believe in Jesus' virgin birth. I most definitely do believe she is the Blessed Mother of Christ, the Son manifestation of the Holy Trinity, i.e. the Mother of God in that sense. Absolutely!! As for ascention -- I'm not saying she wasn't ascended -- she certainly could have, very likely could have been. We just don't know that for an absolute fact - through the Bible or through later documents that I know of. For whatever it's worth, I still want to go to the special mass for the occasion - our church will have it on Monday 15th.
What else -- oh, about the eternal virgin -- here is a scripture that I would find it hard to think did not mean Jesus' immediate "earth" family:
It's Matthew 13
53 And when Jesus had finished these parables, he went away from there, 54 and coming to his own country he taught them in their synagogue, so that they were astonished, and said, "Where did this man get this wisdom and these mighty works? 55 Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not his mother called Mary? And are not his brothers James and Joseph and Simon and Judas? 56 And are not all his sisters with us? Where then did this man get all this?" 57 And they took offense at him. But Jesus said to them, "A prophet is not without honor except in his own country and in his own house." 58 And he did not do many mighty works there, because of their unbelief.

Also, before that at Matthew 12:
46 While he was still speaking to the people, behold, his mother and his brothers stood outside, asking to speak to him. 47 48 49 And stretching out his hand toward his disciples, he said, "Here are my mother and my brothers! 50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother, and sister, and mother."

These two contexts are certainly referring to his immediate family members.


Re: our salvation by grace not works:
Romans 3:
20 For no human being will be justified in his sight by works of the law, since through the law comes knowledge of sin. 21 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from law, although the law and the prophets bear witness to it, 22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction; 23 since all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 they are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God put forward as an expiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins; 26 it was to prove at the present time that he himself is righteous and that he justifies him who has faith in Jesus. 27 Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On the principle of works? No, but on the principle of faith. 28 For we hold that a man is justified by faith apart from works of law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30 since God is one; and he will justify the circumcised on the ground of their faith and the uncircumcised through their faith. 31 Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law.
continuing to Romans 4:
1 What then shall we say about Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness." 4 Now to one who works, his wages are not reckoned as a gift but as his due. 5 And to one who does not work but trusts him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness.

Metal1633 - it's not MY doctrine. And as for the murderer who repents and finds God, then that is up to God to forgive him and we are told to forgive also, and with God's help we have to forgive. That does not mean he is to be set free. He still must pay the cost for breaking the laws of our government. God will know his heart, if it is sincere or he is merely sorry he got caught. We cannot see his heart. There's no comparision between the two.
I was finally able to attach the article that I failed at before. If you want to see it, it's in a separate thread in Catholic 101 -- and it will explain about the Stations and what started this whole thing, even where the custom came from. I scanned it out of my new Catholic Bible.

Sherry

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 8:50 pm 
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Sherry wrote:
Where did I get Mary was born of a virgin herself - to be honest I don't remember where I heard it. I have read about half of Hahn's "Hail Holy Queen." It might have been on EWTN that I watch every night during insomnia hours and then force myself to stay awake at a 3am show if I"m interested. It might have been off this board. But I KNOW it is being claimed somewhere "out there."


The teaching of the Catholic Church has never taught that Mary's mother was a virgin when Mary was born. I've read Hail Holy Queen and it ain't in there. You really need to refrain from making statements that you can't back up. If the Church taught such a thing, you could easily find it in the Catechism.

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The thought was that if Jesus was without sin, He could not have been born in a woman of sin - and even acknowledged that her mother and grandmother, etc, would have had to have been born also of virgin birth, etc -- but the reasoning continued that no, only she, and that she was sinless. I certainly hope you guys are correct and this is not the teachings of the Church, and that I brought it up to hear that it's not the case. If so, somebody certainly is teaching in error. If I discover where I saw/heard it, I'll get back to you on it.


Please do. It's not good to leave such a charge hanging in the air like that.

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Not the same source, but another place I heard that there are those who are wanting to actually have Mary declared as co-redeemtrix and if the Church ever did so, it would then become canon law. Sorry - that's scary!


You scare easily. You don't believe that Mary's submission to the Will of God was cooperation in the "plan of salvation"? If not, then what in the world did God use her for? Did God use her and then throw her down? Your attitude is what is scary.

Quote:

What else -- oh, about the eternal virgin -- here is a scripture that I would find it hard to think did not mean Jesus' immediate "earth" family:
It's Matthew 13
53 And when Jesus had finished these parables, he went away from there, 54 and coming to his own country he taught them in their synagogue, so that they were astonished, and said, "Where did this man get this wisdom and these mighty works? 55 Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not his mother called Mary? And are not his brothers James and Joseph and Simon and Judas? 56 And are not all his sisters with us? Where then did this man get all this?" 57 And they took offense at him. But Jesus said to them, "A prophet is not without honor except in his own country and in his own house." 58 And he did not do many mighty works there, because of their unbelief.


Those people are identified as the children of other women in the Bible. Not one other person is called a child of Mary or a child of Joseph, other than Our Lord. If you think differently, then kindly point out the verse(s).

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Also, before that at Matthew 12:
46 While he was still speaking to the people, behold, his mother and his brothers stood outside, asking to speak to him. 47 48 49 And stretching out his hand toward his disciples, he said, "Here are my mother and my brothers! 50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother, and sister, and mother."

These two contexts are certainly referring to his immediate family members.


Please list the names of every person in the Bible who is called a child of Mary and every person in the Bible who is called a child of Joseph. My Bible lists only one: Jesus


Quote:
Re: our salvation by grace not works:
Romans 3:
20 For no human being will be justified in his sight by works of the law, since through the law comes knowledge of sin. 21 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from law, although the law and the prophets bear witness to it, 22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction; 23 since all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 they are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God put forward as an expiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins; 26 it was to prove at the present time that he himself is righteous and that he justifies him who has faith in Jesus. 27 Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On the principle of works? No, but on the principle of faith. 28 For we hold that a man is justified by faith apart from works of law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30 since God is one; and he will justify the circumcised on the ground of their faith and the uncircumcised through their faith. 31 Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law.
continuing to Romans 4:
1 What then shall we say about Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness." 4 Now to one who works, his wages are not reckoned as a gift but as his due. 5 And to one who does not work but trusts him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness.


I note that you avoided the citations from Scripture that say things like "faith without works is dead". Why is that?

Siggy


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 9:07 pm 
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Sherry, every Catholic is bound to believe in that we are saved by grace.

Question: Do you believe that Jesus did acts that were pleasing to God? I'll assume that the answer is yes. When we are joined with Christ we become true Sons of God as scripture says; do we not? By grace, we become sons of God and the actions that we perform under grace and united to Christ are pleasing to God. It is not our own actions and/or effort but the grace of God that makes our actions pleasing to God. Likewise it is only ourselves that we can blame for our evil actions.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 9:48 pm 
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It's getting late -- it's been a long day. I'm sure y'all are as tired as I am.
Siggy - thanks for the detailed response -- I didn't make up the charge about the claim of Mary's birth being of a virgin. I heard it. I am glad that is not the real teachings of the Church. If I could remember WHERE I heard it, I would tell you. I imagine it was on EWTN - best guess. I just can't remember who was talking and I didn't take notes.

As for naming names, etc -- I gave you some Scriptures, chapter and verse. It wouldn't make sense in those context to say "Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not his mother called Mary? And are not his brothers James and Joseph and Simon and Judas? 56 And are not all his sisters with us?" They were talking about Jesus and his family. Not hiw whole neighborhood. If James and Joseph and Simon and Judas were somebody else's sons then what would have been the point of the statement.

Grace v works -- Indeed, Faith without works is dead. I know that. I didn't want to cut and paste the whole New Testament. I referred to Ft. Sheen's sermon last night. He was saying what I'm saying. BECAUSE you have faith, you will have works. BECAUSE you love God, you will be obedient and do what He wants of us. If you love God, and you have His love in you, you will want to do good for your neighbor, you will want to pray, you will want to not take His name in vain -- you won't not do those things to gain His favor but you will do those things because He has put that desire in your heart to do those things.

Mary is NOT our co-redeemtrix! Jesus is the only way! We cannot put anything above Jesus! Not even Mary. She did indeed bring Him into the world. She was indeed obedient to God to bring about His Son. He did NOT cast her off when He was through with her. She has her honor, by all means! Of course she had a part in God's salvation, but she IS NOT our redeemer. So, yes, to say such a thing is scary! CERTAINLY adding to what God's plan was/is for mankind is scary. Please -- give this some thought! I even talked to the RCIA lady about this one. Her comment was that is some radical members who are trying to claim such a thing and it will never happen. So, I am not alone in the fear of such a statement.

Bonadventure -- you said nothing I disagree with. Yes, I certainly believe we should conduct ourselves to please God. You said it very well, and I have no disagreement with you.

Folks, I'm not saying that good things we do doesn't please God. Of course it does. And we should always strive do things that are good and right and pleasing in His sight. And perhaps sometimes we can even bargain with God -- if you'll do this I'll do that -- kind of thing. But to say that our works will get us into heaven is folly. We must be washed in the blood of Christ to enter Heaven. That is the only way. Nothing we can do can gain us that right.

G'nite, folks. God bless us all.
Sherry

PS who asked about purgatory? I don't know.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 10:32 pm 
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Metal1633 - it's not MY doctrine. And as for the murderer who repents and finds God, then that is up to God to forgive him and we are told to forgive also, and with God's help we have to forgive. That does not mean he is to be set free. He still must pay the cost for breaking the laws of our government. God will know his heart, if it is sincere or he is merely sorry he got caught. We cannot see his heart. There's no comparision between the two.
Well yes it is your doctrine. It is not a Doctrine of the Church therefore the Holy Spirit did not Reveal it to you, where ever you learned it from.

As for the Murderer, there is a perfect comparison because if he truly repents and God forgives him he STILL must suffer the Temporal Consequences of his sin. Even if the State were to release him early he would still be required by God to pay the Temporal Consequences for his crime. But then again, because our God is a God of Grace and Mercy, he has given unto the Church to grant to that penitent an indulgence so he would have either part or all of the Temporal Consequences of his actions remitted.

Oh and the Assumption. Mary did not Ascend. No Ascension of Mary. She was taken, like Enoch or Elijah. We call it Assumption to distinquish it from Ascension, which Christ did himself.

So Christ Ascended (He did it himself, being God)
Mary was Assumed (it was done to her by God)

As to Mary. I think you have confused the idea of her sinlessness with virgin birth. She was born concieved by man and wife like us all. She was made free of sin by the Grace of God to be the pure and perfect mother for Him. That is the Immaculate Conception.

As an FYI, most Protestant Sects believed in the Immaculate Conception until only this last century. The denial of her Immaculate state is the new doctrine.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 11:22 pm 
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Metal1633 said:
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Well yes it is your doctrine. It is not a Doctrine of the Church therefore the Holy Spirit did not Reveal it to you, where ever you learned it from.

As for the Murderer, there is a perfect comparison because if he truly repents and God forgives him he STILL must suffer the Temporal Consequences of his sin. Even if the State were to release him early he would still be required by God to pay the Temporal Consequences for his crime. But then again, because our God is a God of Grace and Mercy, he has given unto the Church to grant to that penitent an indulgence so he would have either part or all of the Temporal Consequences of his actions remitted.


I got this from the Bible, not from my own thinking of "wouldn't it be nice if" -- this is what Paul tried to tell us in Romans - and indeed it's everywhere in the Bible -- prophesied in the OT and consistent throughout the NT. Even the Book of James is not inconsistent. I gave you a few scriptures, but there are certainly more.
Yes, we have to pay to humanity for crimes commited in this life. If we do not accept the blood of Jesus as washing our sins, then we will certainly pay in the next left. But if we do accept that, believe in the name of Jesus, confess that Jesus is Lord, and that His shed blood was for our sins, then that price is paid. What more can we, mere mortal man, do that would cover than sin that Jesus, the Son of God, hasn't already done! If you think about it, what vanity would that be to think that what Jesus did wasn't quite enough, so if we do this or that, then that will then be sufficient!
I'm not trying to be sarcastic. I hope the tone isn't coming out that way. I am speaking in love and this is very important to our salvation and it's God truth, clearly given to us in black and white. To put these other things into it is adding to God's plan.

Thank you for the correction on ascended/assumed. I didn't know that.

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As to Mary. I think you have confused the idea of her sinlessness with virgin birth.

No, I know what I heard. It was indeed disturbing. But all I can do at this point is pretty much chalk it up to bad information and move on. I am extremely glad that was not correct. There is bad info out there sometimes.

Quote:
The denial of her Immaculate state is the new doctrine.

I haven't heard this. As far as I'm concerned, that's blastphamy! To take away the Immaculate Conception is to take way the God from the God/Man. Of course I'm hearing things like Jesus was married, etc -- is that the kind of stuff you mean? I wouldn't even read that or listen to that garbage.

g'nite -- again. I'm going to bed :sleep:
Sherry

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 11:49 pm 
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Sherry,

May I suggest a book for you regarding the Marian Doctrines? It's called "Scriptural Basis for Marian Doctrine and Devotion - Questions and Answers" by Rev. John H. Hampsch, C.M.F. Extremely easy to read, you can go thru each question/answer at a time and fully digest the answer. It's 29pgs!! Publisher is Queenship, price is only $2.95!! Maybe you can check with your local Catholic bookstore or go online and find it. It really helped me understand what the Church teaches about Mary. It gives an excellent explanation about the so called "brothers and sisters" of Jesus. I came from the Southern Baptist faith.(Entered Church Easter 2005). Mary's perpetual virginity and Immaculate Conception I came to understand and believe early on. Her Assumption took some time for me to come around. I finally decided that since the Catholic Church was founded by Christ Himself that whatever She teaches must be true. It took me 2 1/2 yrs to get here, so don't get discouraged by doctrines you don't understand or think you'll never come to believe. Everyone of us who are converts have been where you are.

Just continue to pray and ask questions. Maybe just focus on one obstacle at a time. The Holy Spirit did not bring you this far for nothing. I will add you to my prayer intentions :D


God Bless,

Debbie

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 11:50 pm 
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Sherry, just a suggestion, but it might be easier for you if we broke these topics up into different threads.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2005 12:20 am 
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just skimmed the responses (yes , it's late) but sherry, istm you are confusing our Lady's Immaculate Conception, being born w/o the taint of original sin, with something along the lines of Mary's "virginal birth"...i can promise you that what you think you heard was not in hahn's book , nor would it be presented on EWTN

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I haven't heard this. As far as I'm concerned, that's blastphamy! To take away the Immaculate Conception is to take way the God from the God/Man.


again...the Immaculate Conception has nothing to do with the fact that Jesus was conceived by a virgin...

please read this

http://www.catholic.com/library/Immacul ... _Assum.asp

Quote:
It’s important to understand what the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception is and what it is not. Some people think the term refers to Christ’s conception in Mary’s womb without the intervention of a human father; but that is the Virgin Birth. Others think the Immaculate Conception means Mary was conceived "by the power of the Holy Spirit," in the way Jesus was, but that, too, is incorrect. The Immaculate Conception means that Mary, whose conception was brought about the normal way, was conceived without original sin or its stain—that’s what "immaculate" means: without stain.


and for the gamut of Marian belief...go here for starters

http://www.catholic.com/library/mary_saints.asp

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Last edited by faithfulservant on Sat Aug 13, 2005 12:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2005 12:27 am 
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Bonaventure wrote:
Sherry, just a suggestion, but it might be easier for you if we broke these topics up into different threads.


and get this thread back to the topic of the Stations Devotion and the indulgences given? :wink:

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2005 1:06 am 
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faithfulservant wrote:
Bonaventure wrote:
Sherry, just a suggestion, but it might be easier for you if we broke these topics up into different threads.


and get this thread back to the topic of the Stations Devotion and the indulgences given? :wink:


Well I think we have a new thread on that topic in the Cath101 forum now.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2005 9:39 am 
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faithfulservant -- my goodness --I've never heard that definition before. So, thank you for enlightening me!!! I fall in the category that interpreted Immaculate Conception to mean that because she conceived of the Holy Spirit, that the Holy Spirit is what is Immaculate - and that by not having a father who was born of sin (natural man). Goodness. And where did this definition come from? Question off the top of my head and answer off the top of yours - if you know - because I don't have time this weekend to research or study -- but is the term Immaculate Conception used in the Bible anyway, or did that term come later one. I can't remember at the moment.
I have cut and pasted this and the link -- and also Siggy's info to me about Mary in the other thread so I won't lose them and so I can give them better attention the coming week. I'm so far behind on my work -- :)
At least I am learning!!
Sherry :)

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2005 9:42 am 
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Bonadventure and faithfulservant -- if you want to break the thread, that's up to you, however you feel is better for continuity of the board. It doesn't make me any difference. I'm probably trying to cover too much ground too fast anyway. Sometimes I really think there's just too many differences. In fact, now that I'm really trying to learn, I'm surprised how many deep and profound differences there are. But I wouldn't give this journey or meeting all of you for anything!!
Sherry

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2005 3:04 pm 
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Just a quick note here..I havent' gotten any further than page two on this thread..but the stories from the Stations of the Cross, come from tradition, and those come from the Virgin Mary herself, in tradition as it says in the Scriptures, that not all things are written down. These are not mere 'stories', or 'fiction' used to embellish..but things that the Virgin Mary saw on her walk with Christ to the end...it is in tradition that after Christ was put into the prison overnight, awaiting the morning to be transported, the Virgin started back through the city, praying at spots that had something to do with the life her Son had lived...the spot where he was found as a child of 12 in the Temple, etc...these are where we get the stations of the Cross...through TRUE tradition, not some stories made up.

Gracie

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